Empire vs Lizardmen 2400 points - 8th Edition!

@ Plastic Legions HQ -7/10


Lots of Terrain was awesome!, mysterious terrain rules?, not so much we dropped them.


With our new 528 page rulebooks in hand Steve and I played another game of the new 8th Edition of Warhammer Fantasy battles. This time at 2400 points as, the increases needed in Infantry make you run out of points really fast and I just don't think the old standards of 2000 or 2250 are going to be in favor for very much longer. Our overall opinion after this game is once again, the game has totally changed. After soundly beating Steve for the 1st time ever against his Lizards..he even said " I have to totally relearn how to play" that's comment of itself is pretty indicative to the new rules. Armies and the players themselves are going to be changing drastically over the next couple months and I'll say it again- if you are a fan of Warhammer, "the game", "the world" in its macro terms you will love this! but if you are really just a fan of competitive Warhammer in 6th/7th edition and its nuances..I'll probably be seeing you on the tables playing something else.

Game setup was 2400 points and I rolled a wopping 9 pieces of terrain, there was no Mysterious terrain on the board. That's a house rule because we think it sucks, I think you will find the limiting or elimination of mysterious terrain very common in upcoming indy events. to be clear we played with terrain rules, just no mysterious effects.


Empire List- (note the changes in comments after 2 games, and some rules I missed last time have change my opinions on some units)

General- Armor of Silver Steel, Holy Relic, GW, Pistol
Captain BSB- Sword of Sigismund
Battle Wizard- Level 2, Lore of Fire, Seal of Destruction
Battle Wizard- Level 1, Lore of Beasts, Rod of Power
Warrior Priest- Armor of Meteoric Iron, , GW

(note: added a second, level 1 Wizard this time, wanted to try Lore of Beasts for default spell alone as a unit buff, The Rod of Power is waste of points as with the high casting values, I never came close to having any dice left, maybe with a couple level 4's it would be worth it.
overall my character were solid)

30 Swordsmen FC w/ War Banner
15 Swordsmen Detachment
(didn't fair as well this, game as last and I am still second guess detachment choices and overall usefulness in this edition...I will always run these guys the question is what detachment and configuration)

30 Free Company FC
(still a great choice at 170 points, although can definitely NOT handle a 3 x 3 unit of Monstrous infantry)

30 Flagellants, in 3 x 10 Horde formation.
( unstoppable, insane amount of attacks with the ability to martyr and being unbreakable
they are now better than the Steam Tank, yes you read the right, this was my biggest threat
ranking over 1300 points in kills including the Slann!)

10 Crossbows, Musician
10 Handgunners, Musician
(at 85 points and being able to reform in movement and shoot in the shooting phase a much needed change, great!)


5 Knights, Musician , Great Weapons
( still good as protection for my BSB, but dont think they can take a infantry block alone!)

10 Inner Circle Knights, FC w/Steel Standard
(much better than last game, with the back rank striking they are really now, the hammer..ever more so, with Warrior Priest and Great Weapons, the steel standard really help with a potential low dice roll on the charge)


5 Pistoliers, Outrider with Repeater Pistol
(Still good, but not as good as last game with the addition that pistols now suffer range penalites!! ouch..so up to 6" as normal..6"-12" -1 to hit...make Pistoliers with multiple shots hit on 6's at 12". (5's for the champ)...not a good as I thought they'd be...but still good)

Great Cannon, Mortar,
(both were great but the mortar didnt do as well as it should have, mainly because of what I was shooting at, "indirect fire" is a great option thou)


Lizardmen List

Slann Mage Priest, ,Level 4, General, BSB, Focus of Mystery, Focused Rumination, Forbidden Rod, Lore of Life.

(Still the King of Magic just dont expect those Temple Guard to protect you after you inevitably miscast, the Lore of Life and the Forbidden Rod..is an awesome Slann combo as he has 5 wounds
We both think thou running him alone in a "High State of Consciousness" is the way to go thou)

Scar Vet x 2 , various trinkets, 1 had the initiative 10 weapon.
(still awesome combat hero's)

20 Saurus Warriors w/ spears and Shields, FC X2
(Great Infantry but the argument for a unit HW&S for the parry save is their no doubt..I'm definitely building one myself)

20 Temple Guard FC,
(totally marginalized in this edition, cannot hold thier own against strong units in horde formation, what used to an impenetrable wall, collapsed like a house of cards at the sheer number of attacks a strong horde can spit out with there needed 150MM frontage @ 16 points
a piece these guy are only if your doing a theme/fluffy game or maybe run them solo without a Slann as a small unit elites to engage lesser infantry)

10 Skinks x 2- Skirmishers
(non factor this game so no comment..assume they are as useful as they were however skirmishing changes make redirection..way more difficult)

6 Kroxigors
( Monstrous Infantry, is were its at...I pounded these guys with magic and shooting and they near about collapsed my whole left flank before I took them out..watch out!)

4 Terradons
( new line of sight rules or not..these guys are shooting fodder and barely made past there vanguard move before being shot to pieces...I had some bad dice that gave them an extra turn
still good, but not the factor they were in 7th editon)

Salmander with 3 handlers x 2
( with changes to Skirmishers and that they can now march and shoot makes these guys better than ever)

8 Chameleons
(poisons still a great choice, got killed too early to comment)


another shot of the battle lines......

Brief Recap

Games again go so much quicker..first turn I charge my IC Knights thru the woods at the Chameleons I can see on the other side..I lose my Champion due to failing my "dangerous terrain' check going thru the wood, but wipe them out...I get a few other shooting kills. on Steve's turn..he moves the Slann over the hill and casts "throne of Vines" which I wisely drop my "seal of destruction" on, he then goes for the big kill ( my General, over the conservative kill , my horde of Flaggies) the Slann drops the "dwellers below" on my Generals unit but also miscasts! (were throne of vines..had I let it go would have saved him on a 2+) "Dwellers" does 17 kills including my Warrior Priest of the 32 guys in my unit but also kills 8 Temple Guard..my next turn my Flaggies charge the Slaan..crush the TG to a man..and put him on Snake eyes for the break, he fails with cold blooded and the reroll and is gone after only 1 magic phase. They also overun (being 10 wide) into the flank of his unit of Saurus crushing them the next turn. I kill a bunch of other stuff as well the next couple turns and by turn 3 the game is pretty much over but we play it out...Steve's Kroxigor..raise some hell crushing my Free Company and my General (who'd moved over there after my swordsmen got decimated but again we forgot about Steadfast so I would have held but broke) He also takes out my BSB and Knights who can't take a charge from 20 Saurus with Scar Vet. My IC Knights plow into the flank of those Saurus on my turn...and break and kill them (although we forgot they were stubborn due to ranks, it didnt really matter. by that point I had killed all his support and the Krox..and even with my Knights and those Saurus still in combat, I had alot of support my Flaggie horde coming up the rear) Steve conceded at the top his turn 5.


Unbreakable Horde on the Flank?...probably the worst potential outcome for anybody.

Lessons Learned-

Empire- with two big wins in both games I've played, the Empire is looking good. Flagellants are now crazy scary and the Greatswords are again now looking viable, Ranked unit with a Warrior Priest and the Razor Standard (look for me to try them my next game) I havent found the Block/ Detachment combo that's quite right yet..but all options other than the Steam Tank (again I've changed my mind here, even at the FAQ'd T10 @300 points just isn't worth it over say Flaggies and Greatswords) Empire is all about Infantry and Artillery with magic support.

Lizardmen- The kick ass old MSU Lizards list doesnt seem so viable...blocks of troops, a solo Slaan and Stegadons seem the way to go...1 normal Stegadon over those Temple Guard, and more expansive Slann that could have traveled alone would have give Steve and extra 70 points to play with and a Stegadon on his left flank with his Krox on his right would have given me fits.
I look forward to getting my lizards on the table..and I have no doubt Steve's will be back for vengeance.

Empire vs Skaven 2250- 8th Edition!!

@ Games Workshop, Oak Park 7/1


( just out of the bottom of the picture was more terrain and my cannons and crossbows on the lower right)


Finally had my 1st into game of Warhammer Fantasy Battles, 8th Edition yesterday. While my comments in my last post still stand, I want to take a moment and go into brief run down on the details on the game and the gameplay changes. I took a standard Empire list just going by the face value changes to the game without having the book of course..I saved a few points in case I wanted to switch up some items for the new common but I all I did was give my BSB a potion of Speed, due the overall higher initiative of Skaven.

Empire List-
General- Helm of Ratslayer, Holy Relic, GW, Pistol
Captain BSB- Sword of Might, Potion of Speed
Battle Wizard- Level 2, Dispel Scroll, Lore of Life.
Warrior Priest- Armor of Meteoric Iron, Icon of Magnus, GW

(note: General is still a solid choice, Pistols being 12" now is great, even going last with a Great Weapon was not that bad (at least in this game), BSB is now mandatory and useful, Wizard- I found 1 level 2 with a Scroll, being totally adequate against a level 4, a level 2, and level 1, unheard of in 7th ed. The Warrior Priest, got a huge bump with RIP's being able to overlap. although I think the icon of magnus is now mute, 25 point to nerf +1 to your fear causing opponents combat res, when you have a BSB for any leadership check..is a waste of points)

30 Swordsmen FC w/ War Banner
15 Swordsmen Detachment
(initative 4, the best 6 points a man The Empire has to spend, the detachment system is somewhat screwed now in 8th when it comes to Rank and File..you need a 5 x 2 formation, to cancel ranks so taking the odd casualty means you need Detachments of 15 to ensure they get a chance to do their job , which is pretty unwieldly. Not sure how small unit of skirmishers redirecting in 8th will work..I'll have to try that at a later date.)

30 Free Company FC
( 2 attacks each, but now save at 170 points this was very useful unit..these guys are now totally useful as combat unit, not just detachment fodder
or objective grabbers)

24 Flagellants
( Flaggies got a huge boost with "stepping up", no need for a champ and now you always "Martyr" as long as you have the models, it used to be that you'd only "martyr" if you got the charge, 24 was barely enough thou..need to find a way to get 30 in)

10 Crossbows
(great and really the way to go due to S4 and 30 inches, over the overrated handgunners)

10 Handgunners, Marksman HLR
(Handgunners are Empire Fluffy and that's cool, but these guys arent as good as crossbows even with the AP, due to the shorter range, the HLR never does much for me, bad luck I guess)

5 Knights, Musician , Great Weapons
(GW's now +2 Mounted. makes them better than lances again, you can bet GW's for Cav will not be free in the next Empire Army book, sad for the 12 Knights with Lances I have.)

5 Inner Circle Knights, FC Steel Standard
( Cav across the board did take a slight hit, with 3d6 drop the lowest charge thing, I did fail a key charge with a roll of (1,1,2) however I had backup so it was ok, I think with Empire, Standard Cavalry is totally maginalized. In fact dropping both these units, and the Hochland Long Rifle for the Steam Tank and an extra 5 Flagellants would have made my list that much tougher.)

5 Pistoliers, Outrider with Repeater Pistol
( the money, Fast Cav now with Vanguard move, and 12 inch shooting range..expect multiple units in Empire Armies)

Great Cannon x 2

Helstorm Rocket Battery
(Artillery got ALOT better in 8th, it so good now..that one of the biggest problems I see coming in 8th Edition is Artillery Spam the cannons and rocket battery more than earned their points back, and thats the first time I can say that about the rocket battery.)


Skaven List

General- Grey Seer Level 4, 6 Warpstones,on the Screaming Bell
Plague Priest- Level 2 on the Plague Furnace
Warlock Engineer
Cheiftain BSB

60 Clanrats, FC
- Ratling Gun Team

33 StormVermin FC (w/ Bell)
-Ratling Gun Team

30 Plague Monks (w/ Furnace)

15 Poisonwind Globadiers w/ Champ

10 Censer Bearers /w Champ

Plague Claw Catapult


Empire List Notes-

I purposely didn't take the Steam Tank for couple reasons. 1, The Stank was undoubtedly the tournament crutch of Empire in 7th Edition you need it or the War Altar to have something to divert attention from your troops, my opponents had to deal with the Steam Tank, and whatever was dealing with the tank was inevitably something I didnt want attacking my blocks. 2. at 300 points, that's alot of infantry your giving up and above anything 8th ed is all about infantry..in retrospect it would have been more useful than my Knights in this game..(keep in mind the Stank excels as a Close Combat ramming machine, if you're using it as a shooting platform, you are just a gambler) Overall the Empire in 8th Edition but using the 7th Edition book , just got a whole lot better.


Skaven List Notes- I don't know enough about Skaven to really comment, I've played less than a dozen games against Skaven ever, and only 3 maybe four with the new book, but despite the two big heavies it seemed to me this list was seriously missing some fast flankers and things like Swarms and Jezzails are a serious pain in the ass, big targets like the Bell and Furnace and subject to severe pain in this new Age of Artillery (I'll recap later but I popped the furnace turn 1, and had the bell down to 2 wounds by turn 2). This like a Abomination and Doom Wheel seem now for rats, even more mandatory and powerful.


Table Set Up and Mission

Seeing this was my first game, we choose mission 1, Battlefield, (Pitched Battle). Terrain Rules have changed Big Time you can have up to 10 pieces of terrain on the table (I rolled 8) , and every piece of terrain now has it own rules. Personally I think the new terrain rules are a bad idea, its one thing to have once piece, or objective having special effects but when you have 4,5,6+ all having their own rules/effect it slows the game down and is very tournament unfriendly. There had been alot of talk about the new True Line of Sight rules, but in reality it wasnt that big a deal being able to shoot thru forests is odd but makes sense, if you can see it, you can target it, cover were applicable...at least it seems to actually be true line of sight unlike 5th ed 40K which isnt True Line of Sight (because of abstract casualty removal)


Movement Phase-
New Movement is different, not sure how I feel about it right now..it definitely takes some getting used to, not sweating the minutia of a 1/8 of an inch in order to feel like you're not cheating your opponent sure is nice. one thing I love, is being able to reform with a leadership check and move normally, this is awesome, no more annoying, 180+ degree wheeling. Getting into a habit of pre-measuring will help you and opponent get the feel of the seemingly now sloppy movement being alot tighter..if your pre-measuring then (rolling for charges) then moving.

Magic Phase-
Ok, I have to say, I flipping love the new magic phase, seriously its so much better than the old magic phase I cant even tell you. There was nothing worse in 7th Ed than having to put a list together based on potential magic abuse by your opponent. Now it doesnt matter, in this game my Level 2 more than held his own against a level 4, a level 2, and a level 1, unthinkable in 7th edition. Warrior Priest Bound Spells are different( as you have to now roll) but since priest dont miscast ( double 1's or 6's may nerf the spell regardless now, not sure) you throw those with what ever you have left unless something else is key, overlapping RIP's is happy new addition to magic phase. This change alone has reset the game completely. also the way default spell now works, Lore Attributes and overall better spells are just better. there is alot of risk involved in Magic and because it now goes both ways...the fun factor of magic went up exponentially.

Shooting-
Shooting is now /will be the big issue in 8th edition, defensively- marginalizing you opponents shooting is now more key than ever, and probably the #1 threat. As I said, no more guess ranging makes artillery brutal, you can also now wound any toughness on the 6, shooting two ranks deep makes units of 20 shooters extreme threats...Dark Elf Crossbows? Look out. We'll need to key an eye for shooting abuses in this edition and for tournament composition systems, Like WPS which focused on magic, new comp systems will focus on shooting particularly War Machine Spam.

Combat -
Close Combat is bloody and brutal, the removal of any psychology from the game means you are always fighting, quicker and more often the question is with how many units...the first combat of this game involved 110 models!!!, I generally don't like pulling insane amounts of models off the
table, but I think this is shell shock from 4th Edition 40K, in last night close combats it all seems to work ok, with combat res typically in the +20 range. (+21 vs 27...etc)


Game Recap-
I brought a small tape recorder thinking I'd just record the conversation to get some good detail for this but it was an old piece of shit using an old school cassette, the tape was quickly eaten, so moot point.( thumbs up for digital recorders, I'll have to get one.) anyway I just moved on with the game..here's a brief rundown.

Turn 1- I won 1st turn, My wizard rolled 2, then 4 for the new lore of life, Flesh to Stone, and Shield of Thorns, both incredibly useful spells, (toughness 5, Free company and Flagellants?, watch out) My cannon blew up the Plague Furnace turn 1 by roll a 6 on wounds, just lucky...I hit the bell as well, but he made the ward save. The Rocket Battery, got both the clan rats and the globabiers..killing a dozen models, wow. On the Skaven turn, I used my scroll to shut down a "cracks call" that could have been nasty with +4 to the dispel the Grey Seer is going to get ough stop alot of spells, with high numbers.

Turn 2- Movement is very fast we where charging and into fights by turn 2. I hit the Screaming Bell with both cannons put 4 wounds on it from one, but rolled a 1 to wound with on the other..so close to finishing it off . Thing about the Screaming bell, I ended up ring it myself from hitting it with S6+ attack but nothing too bad happened. My now Toughness 5 free company battled the furnace less Plague Monks and Priest, even with death frenzy toughness 5 was too much I win the combat, break them and run them down with long overrun...go free company! The huge melee took place directing on the Arcane Ruins in the center of the board. My Flagellant charged his Clan Rats and I also charged my General and his Swordsmen at the Flank of the same Clanrats who where oriented 6x`10 deep..huge flank..I need a good roll and rolled enough to just make it, the rats with Skaven BSB, while decimating my Flaggies (got them down from 24 to 8 or so) my swordsmen Barely took a would on the flank and inflicted some serious pain with characters..I was up by dozen on the combat res forcing an insane courage, failed and run down...turn 2, 60 rats 30 plague monks and two characters dead, this game was far from over. on Skaven turn 2, the Censer Bearers charge the flank of my Free Company that overran..even with T5 stll in effect the flank attack is just too much..I failed 3 toughness tests at T5 with 3 6's I lose and break but get away with over half the unit..no more running into an enemy unit and dying..you now just run around (via WAB) Skaven put some points on the board.


(the biggest melee took place on turn 2, over 110 models to start on top of the arcane ruins)


Turn 3- Re positioning turn...I get another chance for two cannon shots at the bell, one of my Cannons Misfires, out until turn 5.., other cannon a hits it but rolls a "1" to wound. Pistoliers while down 2 guys are shooting up the Globadiers , I am reforming setting up to charge the bell. On Skaven turn 3, the Bell and Vermin charge my IC Knights who down to 4 guys..I have them flee hoping to set up the turn 5 charges from 4 sides. In the Skaven the Grey Seer Miscasts with triple 6's on 3 dice and does 1 would to bell, 2 to himself and kills another 4 Stormvermin. but the bell ends up ringing twice and I take casualties all over the place. including blowing up one cannon, the rocket battery and putting 2 wounds on the second cannon. The luck keeps on going when the Plague claw catapult hits my Generals block dead on, 28 hits....I lose 11 guys..both rattling guns all of sudden go aces on my same unit...1 turn of Shooting take my 30 man unit down to less than 9 guys.. ouch!, the unit was already unbreakable via a RIP prayer and we weren't sure If I needed to make a panic check anyway so I did and pass. Still great turn for the Rats


Turn 4 - I charge my remaining Flagellants into the flank of the Screaming Bell, hoping to hold it up a turn, so I can get some other units into it.during the magic phase I put both Flesh to Stone and Shield of Thorns on my Flagellants hoping to inflict maximum damage, the Shield gets dispelled, but my Flaggies are no toughness 5. 2 Survive the battle and hold up the bell, taking a bunch of Stormvermin with them. my Knights rally my BSB and Knights are also set up to charge the bell as well a my General. On the Skaven turn the Grey Seer gets some kills with magic and ringing the bell Censer Bearers finish off my Free Company.

Turn 5 - Multi Charges on the Bell ensue..I fail one Cav charge with my BSB's unit rolling 1,1,2..but I have enough other stuff its OK, my Priest takes the bell out with his Great Weapon, My General the Grey Seer..my Knights kill the rest of the unit...wiped to a man. overrun into the front of one of the weapon teams. My Cannon back in action blows up the Plague Claw. My Handgunners shoot up the remaining Globadiers forcing a panic..they fail and run off the table. All the Skaven has left are some Censer Bearers who charge and kill my Pistoliers but their own gas kills two them, leaving just one..., the remaining ratling guns kills 3 of my 4 knights.

Turn 6- My lone knight charges the Ratling gun and kills it, my general guns down the last censer bearer with a pistol shot. Skaven are tabled, I was at at about 1250 + points we didnt figure it out exactly but it was clear Empire massacre, Skaven did manage to come back in big way between magic, shooting and the Screaming Bell , I had lost 1100 points. If I hadn't of popped that furnace turn 1, would have been a whole lot tougher of a game!


Knight posing, just cause., have a good weekend!


,

The Chess Analogy

WFB 8th Edition Commentary.

It's been a slow month for the blog, had a few setbacks, namely my basement flooding again after the biblical like rains here of late which called for a time consuming total reorganization and clean out. I haven't played a game of Fantasy Battles since the end of May. My Empire army is still in its cases and while I knocked out the that skirmish dungeon board and played a couple games of the new Warhammer Ancient Battles my mind has really been on Warhammers new edition.

I've spent a good deal of time talking and reading about it, and while my first attempt to make it into my local shop to get a game in with the book was rained out (the area floods I mentioned) I have spent some time (2 sit downs) with the rulebook, read the new White Dwarf and the games designers comments. I've also talked to seasoned players, for and against who have played the new edition. While there are things I like and definitely don't like, the big picture is clear to me now and clarity is always a good thing.

7th Edition competitive Warhammer as we knew it now is dead. Potentially still in its last throes somewhere for another few weeks but to most who have thoroughly read the new rules, its dead and buried. Occasionally GW surprises me as they often seem to blindly stumble along unaware of the troops of the ground their wants, needs and motivations unacknowledged but somehow accidentally appeased by unending stream of new toys for us all to play with. however As far as Warhammer is concerned its clear that GW did see what was going on all those miniature battlefields across the globe and didn't like what it was seeing.

Unfortunately for many, competitive miniature gaming is viewed as a sport, its all about list tailoring, number crunching, statistical analysis and game faces. GW reinforced this by pushing events like Ard'd Boyz and calling a stop to their own GT's and letting Indy RTT's take over the Tournament circuit. They gave the keys to the store to their customers to see what would happen and have realized that the thing being lost most, was the thing held dearest to them..the hobby. (yes- I know all you cynics said "money")

Here comes WFB 8th Edition, a complete antithesis to the studied, number crunching, statistical probabilities of its former wargaming pseudo sport. If you've spent years being able to discern 8 from 10 inches with the naked eye or could calculate the odds of specific combat result down to a margin of 1 in your head for every unit on the table, you will find these skills no longer required in any great degree. Because WFB 8th may be allot of thing but one thing it is in spades is random.

Random is a sports fans worst nightmare; they want hard probabilities based on skill, practice, and dedication.

They demand the likes of Michael Jordan, and recoil in horror at a Steve Bartman. 8th Ed's loose movement, random charges, random spell dice, fighting by initiative and models always being able to fight back until there are no more to fight all work against the way the game has previously been played in a new level of randomness that is sure lose as many new fans as it gains.

A 528 page rulebook packed with back story, and photo's of miniatures is there for one purpose. The celebration of the hobby in all its splendor over celebrating the rules of the game. The easing up of the army organization chart and change from pitched battles to predetermined mission/scenarios is all geared toward you putting a well themed Warhammer force on the table, with special characters abound. I'm seeing the direction of game almost being a war game in the style and context in what you find in a...dare I say it: "role playing game".

All this of course will have a serious impact on the current RTT scene, which attempts to create either through composition or lack of, a balanced playing field (depending on your poison, comp or no comp) so it can be decided in a sports-like manner who the best player of the day is. We'll have to see how it goes, of course but I don't see 8th edition meeting the demands of hard core tournament goers, as is. One view is the game will get compressed down into a cookie cutter list, dice fest that marginalizes randomness as much as possible and inevitably fall into the trap that was 40K 4th Edition. (where miasma within the tourney scene will eventually lead to people losing interest all together.)

The flip side is people will embrace the new game for what it is and 8th Edition tournaments will be more of hobby events that embrace expanded soft scores, with games of pre-designed scenarios that will enable any person of marginal skill to win the day with a bit of luck. ( I think we may need to go thru the former to get to the latter)

Again this reverts back to my old "A versus B" arguments of the past, 8th edition at face value is clearly a game for "Type B" players. "Type A" players will find themselves out in the cold inevitably whittling away those 528 pages down to a handful of units of that minimize the potential randomness, in order to maximize the odds to "win"... however it's clear to me Warhammer 8th Edition isn't too about winning, it's about putting all those painted models down on the table and having a great aesthetic experience and a good time.

You would think, as a self described "B player" I would rejoice in these changes, but the tactician and war gamer in me doesn't. Part of me longs for knowing I always have an 8 or 14 inch charge, or knowing what my magic dice are or knowing my bound spells will always go off, or knowing enough kills on the charge will break an enemy unit without it ever getting the chance to strike back. Part of me revels in the fact that I'd never see Archeaon or Mannfred Von Carstein on the table at a tournament.

Having played the new Warhammer Ancient Battles, in which designers clearly went the opposite rout of 8th Edition WFB, by diving deeper into 7th edition rules and exploring more complicated possibilities of movement and combat. I find myself deeply drawn to the possibilities by studying this game, and it's reality that ancient warfare was as complicated then, as modern warfare is today

Clearly with Warhammer 8th edition gaming at shops or at home with friends will remain fun, easier to learn, and casual. The competitive tournament scene will adapt to either one that embraces the hobby in a way that is as all encompassing as the new rulebook lies out, or be it one that tries minimizing the purposeful randomness of new rule set and attempts to capture that focal point that was middle days of 7th edition. Perhaps even both for a time, but in the end only one will dominate and that will depend on the meddle of the players, old and new and the stomach for change.

In closing, I'm excited about the possibilities 8th Warhammer edition brings, I still love the miniatures and in GW's own words that's the key focal point of their existence. I look forward to new events, and new takes on old events. I look forward to new ways of playing old armies, and playing new ones. Reading the book clearly does make the game sound fun!. But I also look forward to pursing other games that push more in-depth tactical and strategic thinking through their focus on rules, not just for competitive purposes but for the mental challenges that it brings. "If you want fair and nonrandom, play Chess!" I read somewhere earlier this week, If you want an epic contest of monsters, heroes and hordes of troops, in which anything can and will happen- play Warhammer!. True and fair enough. I'm looking forward to all of it.

Skirmish Battle Board- Done!

Well almost.. a few minor details and props to do. Chris and I played a game on it tonight and had a damn good time. If your curious about the particulars:
How long did this take?- at least 80 hours over the last 6 weeks....with casting maybe more...
How much did it Cost?- I bought some Hirst Molds specifically for this and they get pretty pricey (around $100 for the 3 of them), but they're mandatory for future pieces now that my casting is solid so I consider them a hobby investment over a project expense.. Take those out of the equation and its $10 worth of dental plaster, $20 of Lumber and Masonite, $10 worth of Cork, some cheap craft paint to augment your hobby paints, some other cheap miscellaneous materials...I plan using some water effects so another $10 for a bottle of that..all in maybe $60, if you include the handles ($5 each) but I had those extra from our Kitchen redo.


Still talking about doing an upper level that stacks on to this and you go down thru into
this level.


If all goes to according to plan, You can see this at Adepticon, next year where it will show up for The next Legends of the High Seas event, although in the meantime we plan on using it for other games as well. If you have Questions about how I did any of this, fire away.

Skirmish Battle Board 2..WIP

I jumped the gun a bit on posting photos for this the other day, so here is an update. all the dungeon pieces are complete and painted. I just need to do the stairs which can't be put in until I get the design for the upper section complete.



Here you go (Tim) the prison. The torturer is a reaper figure, I gave a quick base coat and wash and blood stains..have a whole torture chamber of equipment from some old set I have from the 80's that will decorate.


Prison cells




Long view, there are two cavern sections still coming..I am trying to do them from pink foam but I may bite the bullet and do cavern molds from hirst. One cavern section is on the left between the two rooms behind the fireplace. The other behind the Prison area. The stair area attaches to empty hallway on the right.


Kitchen Area.


You can see some finished props here, there are bunch more coming, but I did cut the list down as too many props make it difficult to move figures around, being playable is key. Working on some custom rules for this as well. I'll probably use the Blip system for LoS (ala Space Hulk) and there is blind random placement of forces for the defender. Again using High Seas, LotR rules..I might even do a mash up. As this is playable now..I'll try some games on it this coming tuesday.



The base the whole thing sits in is done as well, (the Carpentry portion anyway) Finish up the props tonight..the basic foam sections sun/mon..play tuesday..then figure out the upper section
as the next project...More soon!.

Skirmish Battle Board

I mentioned early in the year that this summer was going to be the summer of Skirmish games for me and it's looking like its panning out that way.

Since around early May I have been tinkering on and off with a new Terrain Project. With some serious inspiration from my pal Tim at Cursed Treasures, I returned to casting Hirst Arts blocks, in order to build the Ruined Tower Piece similar to his. It wasn't a huge surprise that things went sideways on me, in that special "A.D.D" hobbyist way and this turned into a completely different project.

While getting my casting legs back with the Ruined Tower, (I have two molds, one owned, one borrowed) I just gotten to having enough blocks complete for the initial project when I started looking at all the flagstone floor tiles I was casting in that mould with any extra liquid I have from each batch..I then started pouring Fieldstone blocks as well.

If you've done any work with Hirst Blocks, you know as I do, its harder than it looks to get good results( like anything I guess) not only the casting but the building are both acquired skills if you want things to look good. since I was badly out of practice and my previous Hirst Builds were not too stellar.(not too happy with my Osgiliath Tables, City Tiles) I quickly realized that Fieldstone was a much more forgiving block than some of the others I was working with. And my Modular Fieldstone Dungeon was born. I quickly envisioned a 2' x 2' Battle Board portable as a companion piece to my pal Rich's Pirate Castle, this would be the "Pirate Castle Dungeon" so to speak, but perfect acceptable for any type of Skirmish game.



Fieldstone (or Flagstone) floor tiles are 1 inch squares..so I got out some graph paper and laid out floor plan and how many floor tiles I need. Quite a few it turned out...there are 10 in the mold and I need easily over 200..so I went to work casting in my free time and spending my monthly hobby budget on a couple more molds. As this project has developed..I decided to add the above ground wilderness section as well. There will be a 2'X 2' roof that a playable surface allowing you travel down thru into the Dungeon level. On paper this seems easy enough using removable layers of Pink foam and removable supports.

The basic 11 sections of the Board are complete and feature modular doorways, some with and some without doors. I wanted to keep it as flexible as possible for future use..there are a ton of props (including secret doors) cast as well from the various great Hirst accessory molds. I'm already well into Painting several of the pieces and this thing should be playable this weekend, where I am going to do the carpentry for the base and box its going to live in and the next step will be the Earthen sections and Cavern section (pink foam) before finally moving on to the upper level.



I plan on using this for Legends of the High Seas/ LotR SBG and single campaign scenario, or just general Fantasy skirmish gaming. I love the concept of the 2' x 2' Battle Board..and I am having so much fun with this..I am going dig in and get as much done as possible before the release of WFB 8th comes in a month steals back my attention.



I'll follow up with some insight on how did some of the stuff here, once the bottom section is 100% done and I get some detail photographs, more photos coming for sure.

WAB Night!

Club Night @ Plastic Legions HQ 6/1



Rich has done a nice job on his WAB stuff and owns several painted armies

Last night we met for our Bi Monthly club night, it was preplanned as an evening of the new Warhammer Ancient Battles. Five of us in attendance and most of us have the makings of various WAB forces..I have a ridiculous amount of Celts due my interest in WAB over the last 3 years and release of a ton of plastics for the game during the same time frame. I fielded a straight up 1000 points of Celt Barbarians right out of the new Book and Billy did the same with Imperial Romans. Rich had 2000 points of Rome and Carthage, out of the Hannibal book and finally Chris was packing 2000 points of Macedonians..3 huge phalanx's of pikes..2 units of Cavalry, some Skirmishing Cavalry and lots of foot Skirmishers.Chris and I played 1000 points face off early just to demo the rules Celts vs Macedonians, in which my ability to roll ridiculous amount of "6"'s for armor saves won me the day. Do to my shortage of "ready to play" models..I did run three characters, barbarian characters are very powerful considering particularly the Shaman.


The full shot of the battle lines, our turn moving ahead
excuse the unpainted models here..still figuring out what
the heck to even focus on..

After defeating the Macedonians the 5 of us set up on the 4 x 8 and did a 3000 point game of Rome / Carthage against Macedonians with Barbarian Allies..we definitely had more troops, then our opponents but they certainly had the better troops overall. I really like the the new charts for determining terrain, after which we had an open battlefield with large hill on one flank and two big patches of rough, one dead center, and one near the other flank. We piled all our skirmishers in the middle since they would not be impeded by the rough, The bulk of the Barbarians, the cavarly and the chariots where on the left, with the Pikes and some skirmishers on the right to deal with the heavy Roman Armor. Our Skirmishers and my Barbarians broke thru the center early and separated the Roman lines and a few turns later almost collapsed the entire left flank. The Romans were making some headway on right and last turn I had two units fleeing that 'if" rallied I would have brought to the right flank to aid. Before that came to be however, we called the game (after 3 hours and midnight). In the end it was slight advantage our way but can't say we won.

Barbarians taunting our lines..

That's the thing about WAB, things can change, radically every turn- thanks to the biggest single arbitrator of the game: Psychology!. Those familiar with the current 7th edition of Warhammer Fantasy Battles will find themselves in comfortable surroundings with the new WAB. The game is more like 7th Ed WFB, then the previous edition. However, Psychology is completely different and Panic is a huge dynamic. You must test for panic, not only if someone else breaks within 12 huge inches of you, but if a fleeing unit is within 6 inches of one of your units at the top of your turn Then that unit will need to make a Panic check as well, before moving, or declaring a charge. Furthermore, even if you win your combat but an allied unit nearby loses and breaks..your winning must test before your overrun, even if engaged in combat!. Given average leadership in WAB is much lower than its Fantasy cousin, you will fail alot of panic tests.

These intense Psychology rules do present a very accurate depiction of the chaos of an ancient battlefield, where drilled and disciplined soldiers held their ground over untrained hordes, men and beasts running wildly from combat to combat on the battlefield. and the huge battlefield is made up of dozens of individual skirmishes and you have clear, drawn and formed battlelines There is alot more going on in WAB ruleswise than I have time to illustrate here. When the evening concluded is was clear we all had a great time, and the general overview of the new rules is that they are great.


Chris's Macedonians...

In comparison to WFB, the 8th edition of WFB is definitely going to be a streamlined much simpler game from its current edition, while WAB on the other hand has taken the oppposite approach with 7th going in the more detailed direction. I think both games will have there niche..with two, different and appealing flavors. Personally WAB is now (and was) incredibly tactical..I my two games, I had easily a half dozen ideas on how to better my Celt army. 8th ed WFB should be tactical as as well but in completely different manner. Where WAB focuses on standard military tactics, the new WFB will focus on marginalizing losses and maximizing combat resolution, within all the things infantry, support, huge monsters, and heroes can bring. The new Warhammer Fantasy Battles is going to be more of a standard miniatures "game" where Warhammer Ancient Battles is even now more of a head on- military simulation.


Three Roman Units...outnumbered almost 2 to 1 I put the majority of my infantry into these guys, Barbarians broke them, this time.

I'd recommend trying out the new WAB rules to see if it suits your style of gameplay. Be prepared for much steeper learning curve that goes much deeper into the possibilities with 7th ed, then the future progress you'll see with the streamlining of a new WFB edition. Look for more WAB taking place right here for sure!





Fleeing Romans in the rear, Barbarians push ahead!