WFB 8th Ed- The Empire in review

So I’ve seen a lot of opinions out there about Empire in 8^th Edition Warhammer. I’ve read everything from knee jerk hyperbole about how Empire is now the crazy, most powerful army to numerous overtop strategies of taking 6 wizards a dozen Warmachines, or spaming this, that or another. .If your idea of fun is being an abusive bunghole to your opponent or gambling on dice rolls to get you big wins. You probably don’t read this blog anyway and this isn’t for you.. I don’t claim to be greatest player, nor do I have years of tournament wins to my credit , but when it comes to the hobby I have lived, breathed and slept with the Empire since Jan 2007. and with 300 something games under my belt and 4000+ points painted to a competition level. -It is the one army I can talk about with complete confidence in a fun and thinking mans way.. But enough about me,-on with the review!

Taking advantage of Bloggers new page feature, see the link above or the sidebar for this article at over 4000 words its bit long for a blogpost!

WFB 8th Edition Intro event!

Warhammer and Grillin!, Nuff Said.

I hosted a small intro event for Warhammer 8th Edition last evening. A club night event we kicked it off early after the work day with Beers and Dogs before hitting the tables at 7pm for 2 games a piece. For at least half of the eight players in attendance it was there 1st chance to play 8th edition, all of us of had time to read over the rules. But massive rulebooks at hand pages turning we dove into 8 games of Warhammer last night.


Lots of new unpainted armies being fielded, with only 3 of painted this was only game between 2 painted armies so all these in game shots are Tomb Kings Vs Dwarfs., and it was a Draw!


The Lists @ 2400 points.

Joe F- Dark Elves

LORDS
Sorceress level 4 ,cold one, pendant, Darkstar cloak Lore of Death
HEROES
Lokir Fellheart
Master BSB Standard of Slaughter
Sorceress Level 2, Ring of Hotek, Sacrificial Dagger

CORE
60 Spears FC, Shields, Combat Banner
20 Corsairs, FC Serpentine Banner

SPECIAL
15 Executioner FC
15 Witch Elves FC
15 Blackguard FC Banner of Murder

RARE
Repeater Bolt Thrower

Results Round 1- Aaron’s WoC - Draw Round 2- Chris’s Tomb Kings- Win
--------------------------------------------------------------

Chris- Tomb Kings

LORDS

Tomb King, Chariot, +2S Swrd, broach of the great desert, dispel scroll

HEROES
Lich , Steed
Lich, Cloak of Dune
Lich
Tomb Prince, great weapon

CORE

39 Skeletons, FC , Summoning Banner
4 Chariots, Standard Musician
6 Light Horse, Musician
11 Skeletons, Bows, Musician
11 Skeletons, Bow, Musician

SPECIAL

24 Tomb Guard, FC
2 Tomb Scorpions

RARE
2 Screaming Skull Catapults

Results Round 1- Billy’s Dwarfs- Draw Round 2 – Joe’s Dark Elves- Loss
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Aaron’s Warriors of Chaos

LORDS
Lord , Manticore, MoS, Crown of Conquest, Diabolic Splendor, Charmed Shield, Biting Blade

HEROES
Sorcerer, Level 2, Mark of Tzeentch, Disc, Homunculus, Power Familiar, Dispel Scroll
Exhalted Hero, Demonic Steed, Shield, MoS, BSB, Warbanner

CORE

18 Warriors, FC, MoS, Extra HW. Shields X 2
12 Marauders, MoS, Shields, Standard, Musician
5 Marauder Horse, Flails, MoS
6 Hounds X 2

SPECIAL

2 Chariots, MoS

Results

Round 1- Joe’s Dark Elves- Draw Round 2- Billy’s Dwarfs- Loss

--------------------------------------------------------------

Joe D’s- Skaven
LORDS

Vermin Lord, Level 4, Doom Glaive
Warlord- General halberd, heavy Armor, enchanted shield

HEROES

Chieftain- BSB, Banner of the Horned Rat
Plague Priest- Foul Pendant
Warlock Engineer- Skaven Brew, Warplock pistol
CORE
61 Stormvermin, FC, Stormbanner, Warpfire team
30 Clan Rats, FC, Ratling Gun Team
30 Clan Rats, FC, Warpfire Team
RARE

2 Doomwheels.

Results Round 1, Rich’s Chaos- Win Round 2 John’s Empire- Loss
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Rich’s Warriors of Chaos

LORDS
Sorceror Level 4 , golden eye, Disc, Mark of Tzeentch, Homunculus, Power Familiar

HEROES
Exhalted hero, General, Armor of Damnation, MoS, Steed of Slannesh, Sheild
Exhalted hero, BSB, Talisman of Preservation, Shield

CORE

50 Marauders, GW, MoS
15 Warriors, Tzeentch, shields, musician, banner of disciple
15 Warriors, Khorne, Halberds, Musician X 2
10 Marauders, Slannesh, Flails, Musicians
5 Marauder Horse, Slannesh, Shield, Throwing Axes SPECIAL
Chariot, Khorne
Chariot, Slannesh

RARE

Chaos Spawn

Results. Round 1- Joe’s Skaven- Loss Round 2- Jeff’s Empire- Win
------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff’s Empire

LORDS
Kurt Helborg
Empire General, Armor of Meteoric Iron, GW
HEROES
Captain BSB
Wizard, Level 2
Warrior Priest, GW

CORE
60 Spearmen, FC
Detachement - 15 Swordsmen x 2
SPECIAL
30 Greatswords
Detachments- 15 Halberdiers x 2 (core)
9 Inner Circle Knights, FC
5 Pistoliers, FC, Repeater Pistol
Mortar.

Results Round 1- John’s Empire- Loss Round 2 – Rich’s WoC- Loss

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Billy’s Dwarfs

LORDS
Dwarf Lord

HEROES
Runesmith
Master Engineer
Thane BSB

CORE
20 Warriors (HW/Shield, full command)
20 Longbeards (GW/HW/Shield, full command)
10 Thunderers (musician)
10 Thunderers (musician)

SPECIAL
15 Ironbreakers(full command)
12 Slayers (Giant Slayer/Musician, Standard)
Cannon
Cannon
Bolt Thrower
Grudge Thrower

RARE

Organ Gun

Results Round 1- Chris Tomb Kings’ Draw Round 2 Aarons WoC – Win

---------------------------------------------------------------------
John’s Empire

LORDS
General of Empire- Armor of Silvered Steel, Holy Relic, Great Weapon, Pistol

HEROES
Captain, BSB, Mounted, Sword of Sigismund
Battle Wizard, Level 2 Lore of Fire, Seal of Destruction
Battle Wizard, Level 2, Lore of Life, Dispel Scroll
Warrior Priest, Armor of Metoric Iron, Great Weapon

CORE
30 Swordsmen, FC , War Banner
Detachment 10 Handgunners

30 Free Company FC

30 Flagellants , Horde

10 Crossbows, Musician
10 Handgunners

SPECIAL
10 Inner Circle Knights, FC, Steel Standard
Great Cannon
Mortar
5 Pistoliers, Musician, Champ w/ Repeater Pistol

Results- Round 1- Jeff’s Empire- Win Round 2 – Joes Skaven- Win


My Empire on the table during- deployment round 1


More TK vs Dwarfs..note Chris' custom catapult in the rear.


Terrain was preset, with 7-8 pieces per table…mysterious terrain was limited
Specific buildings with used, Temple of Skulls, Arcane Ruins, etc..roughly 1
Per table..all woods were normal.


Again my overall opinions previous posted haven’t changes. At 4-0 with the new edition…Empire is looking like a very solid army, its just seems I have a lot more tools now and with the augment spells from the Lore of Life, some my average troops become down right scary. My Game 1 of Empire vs Empire..Started with me trying out the new grapeshot rules and shredding Jeff’s Pistoliers to ribbons. Leaving only the champ who continues to be a pain in my butt..jeff’s massive formations and detachments seemed daunting..but using my Knights to lure Kurt Helborg and Jeffs knights out of the game..The Lore of Life,’s the Dwellers Below’s and bullseye Mortar blast..evaporated the majority of the Greatswords…I had enough shooting that thinned out detachments were no match for 30 Free Company and my 30 Flaggies buffed to Toughness 5, thanks to Flesh to Stone more than held up those Spearmen until I could flank it on 3 sides…a crushing victory.

Game 2 Skaven, 2 nasty Lords a massive horde and 2 Doomwheels is nothing to take lightly, but again I got Flesh to Stone and those Toughness 5 Flaggies Won me the day, crushing the Vermin Lord and then his massive Block of Storm Vermin The Doom Wheel’s wreaked some havoc but I got my Knights into one of them destroying it, the other went out of control and saved me turn before it started chewing up my flank. Joe had some other problems thinning out his own ranks like the Skaven Brew backfiring and some miscasts..I had more then enough magic defense and took the always menacing “Plague” out the game turn 1 with the Seal of Destruction.. With one of my Wizards bunkered in the Arcane Ruins on the table I also had enough magic offense to make joe really struggle . The doomwheels and the Warpfire teams and the Storm Banner caused me some pain early A great game closer than it seemed The turnkey was underestimating the first turn power of 30 Flaggies. In Horde formation, especially when buffed to T5 he turned down chance to try to dispel over other things.




Here’s some of the thoughts and background on 8th edition from the guys playing tonight.

Aaron- grew up on 3rd edition and then didnt play for years returning as new player in 7th ed for the last 6 months or so before 8th’s arrival.” check out Aarons Blog http://xenite.wordpress.com/ for his awesome custom sculpted Warriors of Chaos army.

”In my first game, I tangled with the Dark Elves, and the way that the new rules affect things was kind of surprising. Units like the 20 corsairs were a fantastic way to anchor a flank for the DE. My warriors were predictably awesome, I'll have to make more of them! Some of the nuances of reforming, and maneuvering I still need to get my head around. Billy's dwarfs kind of rocked my world. They are much more viable now I think. The new arty rules are tight, and make it slightly more effective. In general, I am very pleased with 8th. I didn't have a lot to gripe about with 7th, but I think this is definitely a step in the right direction. The major change is that much of the mechanics are linked to dice rolls, and tests. Charge distance, march blocking, moving after reforming for example.“

Rich- has been playing Warhammer on and off for numerous editions since its very early days and has a 20 year + Chaos Collection. You can read more of Rich’s thoughts on last night on his great blog http://chicagoterrainfactory.wordpress.com/

“Holy buckets of dice Batman! Over all I find the new edition is smooth, big and fast moving, but I question its long term play value.”

Billy- got seriously into the game in 5th and Played solidly for the whole run of 6th and 7th, Bretonnia in 6th, mostly Dwarfs in 7th, with dalliances into High Elves, Skaven, and Chaos Warriors." Check out Billy's Blog http://castellanpaint.blogspot.com/

“8th has taken me from being ready to quit WHFB altogether to actually being excited about it again. (Seriously, I've painted about 600 points worth of models in the last 10 days, after not touching my Dwarfs for months) I think the increased amount of terrain is going to force the "shove models forward and make with the stabbin'" armies to actually maneuver, and premeasuring makes the game more about managing the risk inherent in variable charge distances than having the ability to judge abstract distances on a tabletop. The changes to special rules do a lovely job of tweaking some of the more abusive armies in a way that I was skeptical a core ruleset could do. It really takes a system that was obviously showing its age and flaws in an incredibly unflattering way, streamlines and polishes it, and turns it into a ruleset that they should actually be proud of selling in a market that competes with 40K 5th edition, Warmachine, and War of the Ring.”

Chris- Chris is seasoned player playing 6th and 7th ed heavily he done quite a few of major tourneys over since I've known him including winning Best Sportsman at the 2008 Chicago GT.

"Overall, I like it alot. Playing, I had a clear vision of massive armies in battle with heroic leaders inspiring nearby troops and powerful sorcerers casting game deciding spells (sometimes to their own demise). "

Joe D- Joe's a regular at our local GW shop and has played Ogres, Lizards, Skaven, Empire and Daemons of Chaos during 7th Edition.

"when I first heard all of the rumors for 8th before the book came out I thought I would possible flat out quitting or just playing 7th edition at peoples houses. I said I would give it a shot and I have come around to find that 8th isn't as bad as I thought it would be. I mean yes I have to readjust my lists but that isn't a bad thing necessarily. I am now looking at working on armies that were mostly neglected in the last edition because the rules were just not in their favor. The 2400 points we played last night felt like a 2k game in 7th but speed up a hair. It was a good tempo. "

I'll add more quotes from the guys as they come in.......

Recent Efforts

The build up to 8th Edition of Warhammer Fantasy Battles left a bit of a gaming void so to speak. There was a good six weeks there where I didn't do much concerning WFB while I was waiting for the rules and they changes they would bring. I did work a bunch of other stuff over that the time frame and got around to shooting it just recently. Lord of the Rings, Models for the Skirmish Dungeon and some Flames of War stuff are just some of what I was working on.Hopefully I'll get to the point soon where I can update stuff like this a bit more frequently.


This Lord of the Rings trio, isn't for much of anything other than I like the figs and wanted to paint them. They look good running around my Dungeon board, so there is that...Left to Right. Ringwraith, Shade and a Ringwraith as it looks in the twilight realm..( when Frodo has the ring on)







These Skeletons below are from Otherworld Miniatures, who make some of my favorite fantasy miniatures available today. pricey- but excellent in every detail...again models running around my Dungeon.



I''ve watched a couple of classic WW2 films of late on AMC, "The Big Red One", and "A Bridge too Far". The latter, specifically got me all pumped about the whole bunch of Red Devils I have in both 28 and 15 mm, I sorted out all my FoW stuff for assembly..have 3 tanks done, the stand of infantry I did last year when I got my initial FoW box. I hadn't done any vehicles like this in a really long time..doing little tanks like this is fun..this was the 1st one I don't get to use things like weathering powders in my normal projects I'm involved in. The second two Shermans look a bit better but I had just put the transfers on them when I shot these photos so they were'nt ready. I'm going to try to my small army built this summer and maybe even learn how to play!.




Overall the unknowns of the future of competitive WFB have me looking a trying some other games I haven't yet played competitively FoW and WAB are two I am seriously thinking about entering some events with. I love the new WAB rules and now that I actually have an army with models I really like..I'm glad we've got some people playing WAB around here. FoW is popular here too...I can see myself working on three armies between now and the end of the year. Saxons, Red Devils and Lizardmen. What's ready by Adepticon next year, who knows!

Next up- this coming Tuesday, I'm hosting a WFB 8th ed intro party 8 guys..16 games, 2400 points. Not a tourney just a round robin..winners play the winners thing with food and beer..it will give me a good luck as some of the other WFB armies and how they've changes with the new rules. confirmed are Empire, Dark Elves, Ogres, Tomb Kings. Dwarfs and 3 Warriors armies..look for a recap next week.

Empire vs Lizardmen 2400 points - 8th Edition!

@ Plastic Legions HQ -7/10


Lots of Terrain was awesome!, mysterious terrain rules?, not so much we dropped them.


With our new 528 page rulebooks in hand Steve and I played another game of the new 8th Edition of Warhammer Fantasy battles. This time at 2400 points as, the increases needed in Infantry make you run out of points really fast and I just don't think the old standards of 2000 or 2250 are going to be in favor for very much longer. Our overall opinion after this game is once again, the game has totally changed. After soundly beating Steve for the 1st time ever against his Lizards..he even said " I have to totally relearn how to play" that's comment of itself is pretty indicative to the new rules. Armies and the players themselves are going to be changing drastically over the next couple months and I'll say it again- if you are a fan of Warhammer, "the game", "the world" in its macro terms you will love this! but if you are really just a fan of competitive Warhammer in 6th/7th edition and its nuances..I'll probably be seeing you on the tables playing something else.

Game setup was 2400 points and I rolled a wopping 9 pieces of terrain, there was no Mysterious terrain on the board. That's a house rule because we think it sucks, I think you will find the limiting or elimination of mysterious terrain very common in upcoming indy events. to be clear we played with terrain rules, just no mysterious effects.


Empire List- (note the changes in comments after 2 games, and some rules I missed last time have change my opinions on some units)

General- Armor of Silver Steel, Holy Relic, GW, Pistol
Captain BSB- Sword of Sigismund
Battle Wizard- Level 2, Lore of Fire, Seal of Destruction
Battle Wizard- Level 1, Lore of Beasts, Rod of Power
Warrior Priest- Armor of Meteoric Iron, , GW

(note: added a second, level 1 Wizard this time, wanted to try Lore of Beasts for default spell alone as a unit buff, The Rod of Power is waste of points as with the high casting values, I never came close to having any dice left, maybe with a couple level 4's it would be worth it.
overall my character were solid)

30 Swordsmen FC w/ War Banner
15 Swordsmen Detachment
(didn't fair as well this, game as last and I am still second guess detachment choices and overall usefulness in this edition...I will always run these guys the question is what detachment and configuration)

30 Free Company FC
(still a great choice at 170 points, although can definitely NOT handle a 3 x 3 unit of Monstrous infantry)

30 Flagellants, in 3 x 10 Horde formation.
( unstoppable, insane amount of attacks with the ability to martyr and being unbreakable
they are now better than the Steam Tank, yes you read the right, this was my biggest threat
ranking over 1300 points in kills including the Slann!)

10 Crossbows, Musician
10 Handgunners, Musician
(at 85 points and being able to reform in movement and shoot in the shooting phase a much needed change, great!)


5 Knights, Musician , Great Weapons
( still good as protection for my BSB, but dont think they can take a infantry block alone!)

10 Inner Circle Knights, FC w/Steel Standard
(much better than last game, with the back rank striking they are really now, the hammer..ever more so, with Warrior Priest and Great Weapons, the steel standard really help with a potential low dice roll on the charge)


5 Pistoliers, Outrider with Repeater Pistol
(Still good, but not as good as last game with the addition that pistols now suffer range penalites!! ouch..so up to 6" as normal..6"-12" -1 to hit...make Pistoliers with multiple shots hit on 6's at 12". (5's for the champ)...not a good as I thought they'd be...but still good)

Great Cannon, Mortar,
(both were great but the mortar didnt do as well as it should have, mainly because of what I was shooting at, "indirect fire" is a great option thou)


Lizardmen List

Slann Mage Priest, ,Level 4, General, BSB, Focus of Mystery, Focused Rumination, Forbidden Rod, Lore of Life.

(Still the King of Magic just dont expect those Temple Guard to protect you after you inevitably miscast, the Lore of Life and the Forbidden Rod..is an awesome Slann combo as he has 5 wounds
We both think thou running him alone in a "High State of Consciousness" is the way to go thou)

Scar Vet x 2 , various trinkets, 1 had the initiative 10 weapon.
(still awesome combat hero's)

20 Saurus Warriors w/ spears and Shields, FC X2
(Great Infantry but the argument for a unit HW&S for the parry save is their no doubt..I'm definitely building one myself)

20 Temple Guard FC,
(totally marginalized in this edition, cannot hold thier own against strong units in horde formation, what used to an impenetrable wall, collapsed like a house of cards at the sheer number of attacks a strong horde can spit out with there needed 150MM frontage @ 16 points
a piece these guy are only if your doing a theme/fluffy game or maybe run them solo without a Slann as a small unit elites to engage lesser infantry)

10 Skinks x 2- Skirmishers
(non factor this game so no comment..assume they are as useful as they were however skirmishing changes make redirection..way more difficult)

6 Kroxigors
( Monstrous Infantry, is were its at...I pounded these guys with magic and shooting and they near about collapsed my whole left flank before I took them out..watch out!)

4 Terradons
( new line of sight rules or not..these guys are shooting fodder and barely made past there vanguard move before being shot to pieces...I had some bad dice that gave them an extra turn
still good, but not the factor they were in 7th editon)

Salmander with 3 handlers x 2
( with changes to Skirmishers and that they can now march and shoot makes these guys better than ever)

8 Chameleons
(poisons still a great choice, got killed too early to comment)


another shot of the battle lines......

Brief Recap

Games again go so much quicker..first turn I charge my IC Knights thru the woods at the Chameleons I can see on the other side..I lose my Champion due to failing my "dangerous terrain' check going thru the wood, but wipe them out...I get a few other shooting kills. on Steve's turn..he moves the Slann over the hill and casts "throne of Vines" which I wisely drop my "seal of destruction" on, he then goes for the big kill ( my General, over the conservative kill , my horde of Flaggies) the Slann drops the "dwellers below" on my Generals unit but also miscasts! (were throne of vines..had I let it go would have saved him on a 2+) "Dwellers" does 17 kills including my Warrior Priest of the 32 guys in my unit but also kills 8 Temple Guard..my next turn my Flaggies charge the Slaan..crush the TG to a man..and put him on Snake eyes for the break, he fails with cold blooded and the reroll and is gone after only 1 magic phase. They also overun (being 10 wide) into the flank of his unit of Saurus crushing them the next turn. I kill a bunch of other stuff as well the next couple turns and by turn 3 the game is pretty much over but we play it out...Steve's Kroxigor..raise some hell crushing my Free Company and my General (who'd moved over there after my swordsmen got decimated but again we forgot about Steadfast so I would have held but broke) He also takes out my BSB and Knights who can't take a charge from 20 Saurus with Scar Vet. My IC Knights plow into the flank of those Saurus on my turn...and break and kill them (although we forgot they were stubborn due to ranks, it didnt really matter. by that point I had killed all his support and the Krox..and even with my Knights and those Saurus still in combat, I had alot of support my Flaggie horde coming up the rear) Steve conceded at the top his turn 5.


Unbreakable Horde on the Flank?...probably the worst potential outcome for anybody.

Lessons Learned-

Empire- with two big wins in both games I've played, the Empire is looking good. Flagellants are now crazy scary and the Greatswords are again now looking viable, Ranked unit with a Warrior Priest and the Razor Standard (look for me to try them my next game) I havent found the Block/ Detachment combo that's quite right yet..but all options other than the Steam Tank (again I've changed my mind here, even at the FAQ'd T10 @300 points just isn't worth it over say Flaggies and Greatswords) Empire is all about Infantry and Artillery with magic support.

Lizardmen- The kick ass old MSU Lizards list doesnt seem so viable...blocks of troops, a solo Slaan and Stegadons seem the way to go...1 normal Stegadon over those Temple Guard, and more expansive Slann that could have traveled alone would have give Steve and extra 70 points to play with and a Stegadon on his left flank with his Krox on his right would have given me fits.
I look forward to getting my lizards on the table..and I have no doubt Steve's will be back for vengeance.

Empire vs Skaven 2250- 8th Edition!!

@ Games Workshop, Oak Park 7/1


( just out of the bottom of the picture was more terrain and my cannons and crossbows on the lower right)


Finally had my 1st into game of Warhammer Fantasy Battles, 8th Edition yesterday. While my comments in my last post still stand, I want to take a moment and go into brief run down on the details on the game and the gameplay changes. I took a standard Empire list just going by the face value changes to the game without having the book of course..I saved a few points in case I wanted to switch up some items for the new common but I all I did was give my BSB a potion of Speed, due the overall higher initiative of Skaven.

Empire List-
General- Helm of Ratslayer, Holy Relic, GW, Pistol
Captain BSB- Sword of Might, Potion of Speed
Battle Wizard- Level 2, Dispel Scroll, Lore of Life.
Warrior Priest- Armor of Meteoric Iron, Icon of Magnus, GW

(note: General is still a solid choice, Pistols being 12" now is great, even going last with a Great Weapon was not that bad (at least in this game), BSB is now mandatory and useful, Wizard- I found 1 level 2 with a Scroll, being totally adequate against a level 4, a level 2, and level 1, unheard of in 7th ed. The Warrior Priest, got a huge bump with RIP's being able to overlap. although I think the icon of magnus is now mute, 25 point to nerf +1 to your fear causing opponents combat res, when you have a BSB for any leadership check..is a waste of points)

30 Swordsmen FC w/ War Banner
15 Swordsmen Detachment
(initative 4, the best 6 points a man The Empire has to spend, the detachment system is somewhat screwed now in 8th when it comes to Rank and File..you need a 5 x 2 formation, to cancel ranks so taking the odd casualty means you need Detachments of 15 to ensure they get a chance to do their job , which is pretty unwieldly. Not sure how small unit of skirmishers redirecting in 8th will work..I'll have to try that at a later date.)

30 Free Company FC
( 2 attacks each, but now save at 170 points this was very useful unit..these guys are now totally useful as combat unit, not just detachment fodder
or objective grabbers)

24 Flagellants
( Flaggies got a huge boost with "stepping up", no need for a champ and now you always "Martyr" as long as you have the models, it used to be that you'd only "martyr" if you got the charge, 24 was barely enough thou..need to find a way to get 30 in)

10 Crossbows
(great and really the way to go due to S4 and 30 inches, over the overrated handgunners)

10 Handgunners, Marksman HLR
(Handgunners are Empire Fluffy and that's cool, but these guys arent as good as crossbows even with the AP, due to the shorter range, the HLR never does much for me, bad luck I guess)

5 Knights, Musician , Great Weapons
(GW's now +2 Mounted. makes them better than lances again, you can bet GW's for Cav will not be free in the next Empire Army book, sad for the 12 Knights with Lances I have.)

5 Inner Circle Knights, FC Steel Standard
( Cav across the board did take a slight hit, with 3d6 drop the lowest charge thing, I did fail a key charge with a roll of (1,1,2) however I had backup so it was ok, I think with Empire, Standard Cavalry is totally maginalized. In fact dropping both these units, and the Hochland Long Rifle for the Steam Tank and an extra 5 Flagellants would have made my list that much tougher.)

5 Pistoliers, Outrider with Repeater Pistol
( the money, Fast Cav now with Vanguard move, and 12 inch shooting range..expect multiple units in Empire Armies)

Great Cannon x 2

Helstorm Rocket Battery
(Artillery got ALOT better in 8th, it so good now..that one of the biggest problems I see coming in 8th Edition is Artillery Spam the cannons and rocket battery more than earned their points back, and thats the first time I can say that about the rocket battery.)


Skaven List

General- Grey Seer Level 4, 6 Warpstones,on the Screaming Bell
Plague Priest- Level 2 on the Plague Furnace
Warlock Engineer
Cheiftain BSB

60 Clanrats, FC
- Ratling Gun Team

33 StormVermin FC (w/ Bell)
-Ratling Gun Team

30 Plague Monks (w/ Furnace)

15 Poisonwind Globadiers w/ Champ

10 Censer Bearers /w Champ

Plague Claw Catapult


Empire List Notes-

I purposely didn't take the Steam Tank for couple reasons. 1, The Stank was undoubtedly the tournament crutch of Empire in 7th Edition you need it or the War Altar to have something to divert attention from your troops, my opponents had to deal with the Steam Tank, and whatever was dealing with the tank was inevitably something I didnt want attacking my blocks. 2. at 300 points, that's alot of infantry your giving up and above anything 8th ed is all about infantry..in retrospect it would have been more useful than my Knights in this game..(keep in mind the Stank excels as a Close Combat ramming machine, if you're using it as a shooting platform, you are just a gambler) Overall the Empire in 8th Edition but using the 7th Edition book , just got a whole lot better.


Skaven List Notes- I don't know enough about Skaven to really comment, I've played less than a dozen games against Skaven ever, and only 3 maybe four with the new book, but despite the two big heavies it seemed to me this list was seriously missing some fast flankers and things like Swarms and Jezzails are a serious pain in the ass, big targets like the Bell and Furnace and subject to severe pain in this new Age of Artillery (I'll recap later but I popped the furnace turn 1, and had the bell down to 2 wounds by turn 2). This like a Abomination and Doom Wheel seem now for rats, even more mandatory and powerful.


Table Set Up and Mission

Seeing this was my first game, we choose mission 1, Battlefield, (Pitched Battle). Terrain Rules have changed Big Time you can have up to 10 pieces of terrain on the table (I rolled 8) , and every piece of terrain now has it own rules. Personally I think the new terrain rules are a bad idea, its one thing to have once piece, or objective having special effects but when you have 4,5,6+ all having their own rules/effect it slows the game down and is very tournament unfriendly. There had been alot of talk about the new True Line of Sight rules, but in reality it wasnt that big a deal being able to shoot thru forests is odd but makes sense, if you can see it, you can target it, cover were applicable...at least it seems to actually be true line of sight unlike 5th ed 40K which isnt True Line of Sight (because of abstract casualty removal)


Movement Phase-
New Movement is different, not sure how I feel about it right now..it definitely takes some getting used to, not sweating the minutia of a 1/8 of an inch in order to feel like you're not cheating your opponent sure is nice. one thing I love, is being able to reform with a leadership check and move normally, this is awesome, no more annoying, 180+ degree wheeling. Getting into a habit of pre-measuring will help you and opponent get the feel of the seemingly now sloppy movement being alot tighter..if your pre-measuring then (rolling for charges) then moving.

Magic Phase-
Ok, I have to say, I flipping love the new magic phase, seriously its so much better than the old magic phase I cant even tell you. There was nothing worse in 7th Ed than having to put a list together based on potential magic abuse by your opponent. Now it doesnt matter, in this game my Level 2 more than held his own against a level 4, a level 2, and a level 1, unthinkable in 7th edition. Warrior Priest Bound Spells are different( as you have to now roll) but since priest dont miscast ( double 1's or 6's may nerf the spell regardless now, not sure) you throw those with what ever you have left unless something else is key, overlapping RIP's is happy new addition to magic phase. This change alone has reset the game completely. also the way default spell now works, Lore Attributes and overall better spells are just better. there is alot of risk involved in Magic and because it now goes both ways...the fun factor of magic went up exponentially.

Shooting-
Shooting is now /will be the big issue in 8th edition, defensively- marginalizing you opponents shooting is now more key than ever, and probably the #1 threat. As I said, no more guess ranging makes artillery brutal, you can also now wound any toughness on the 6, shooting two ranks deep makes units of 20 shooters extreme threats...Dark Elf Crossbows? Look out. We'll need to key an eye for shooting abuses in this edition and for tournament composition systems, Like WPS which focused on magic, new comp systems will focus on shooting particularly War Machine Spam.

Combat -
Close Combat is bloody and brutal, the removal of any psychology from the game means you are always fighting, quicker and more often the question is with how many units...the first combat of this game involved 110 models!!!, I generally don't like pulling insane amounts of models off the
table, but I think this is shell shock from 4th Edition 40K, in last night close combats it all seems to work ok, with combat res typically in the +20 range. (+21 vs 27...etc)


Game Recap-
I brought a small tape recorder thinking I'd just record the conversation to get some good detail for this but it was an old piece of shit using an old school cassette, the tape was quickly eaten, so moot point.( thumbs up for digital recorders, I'll have to get one.) anyway I just moved on with the game..here's a brief rundown.

Turn 1- I won 1st turn, My wizard rolled 2, then 4 for the new lore of life, Flesh to Stone, and Shield of Thorns, both incredibly useful spells, (toughness 5, Free company and Flagellants?, watch out) My cannon blew up the Plague Furnace turn 1 by roll a 6 on wounds, just lucky...I hit the bell as well, but he made the ward save. The Rocket Battery, got both the clan rats and the globabiers..killing a dozen models, wow. On the Skaven turn, I used my scroll to shut down a "cracks call" that could have been nasty with +4 to the dispel the Grey Seer is going to get ough stop alot of spells, with high numbers.

Turn 2- Movement is very fast we where charging and into fights by turn 2. I hit the Screaming Bell with both cannons put 4 wounds on it from one, but rolled a 1 to wound with on the other..so close to finishing it off . Thing about the Screaming bell, I ended up ring it myself from hitting it with S6+ attack but nothing too bad happened. My now Toughness 5 free company battled the furnace less Plague Monks and Priest, even with death frenzy toughness 5 was too much I win the combat, break them and run them down with long overrun...go free company! The huge melee took place directing on the Arcane Ruins in the center of the board. My Flagellant charged his Clan Rats and I also charged my General and his Swordsmen at the Flank of the same Clanrats who where oriented 6x`10 deep..huge flank..I need a good roll and rolled enough to just make it, the rats with Skaven BSB, while decimating my Flaggies (got them down from 24 to 8 or so) my swordsmen Barely took a would on the flank and inflicted some serious pain with characters..I was up by dozen on the combat res forcing an insane courage, failed and run down...turn 2, 60 rats 30 plague monks and two characters dead, this game was far from over. on Skaven turn 2, the Censer Bearers charge the flank of my Free Company that overran..even with T5 stll in effect the flank attack is just too much..I failed 3 toughness tests at T5 with 3 6's I lose and break but get away with over half the unit..no more running into an enemy unit and dying..you now just run around (via WAB) Skaven put some points on the board.


(the biggest melee took place on turn 2, over 110 models to start on top of the arcane ruins)


Turn 3- Re positioning turn...I get another chance for two cannon shots at the bell, one of my Cannons Misfires, out until turn 5.., other cannon a hits it but rolls a "1" to wound. Pistoliers while down 2 guys are shooting up the Globadiers , I am reforming setting up to charge the bell. On Skaven turn 3, the Bell and Vermin charge my IC Knights who down to 4 guys..I have them flee hoping to set up the turn 5 charges from 4 sides. In the Skaven the Grey Seer Miscasts with triple 6's on 3 dice and does 1 would to bell, 2 to himself and kills another 4 Stormvermin. but the bell ends up ringing twice and I take casualties all over the place. including blowing up one cannon, the rocket battery and putting 2 wounds on the second cannon. The luck keeps on going when the Plague claw catapult hits my Generals block dead on, 28 hits....I lose 11 guys..both rattling guns all of sudden go aces on my same unit...1 turn of Shooting take my 30 man unit down to less than 9 guys.. ouch!, the unit was already unbreakable via a RIP prayer and we weren't sure If I needed to make a panic check anyway so I did and pass. Still great turn for the Rats


Turn 4 - I charge my remaining Flagellants into the flank of the Screaming Bell, hoping to hold it up a turn, so I can get some other units into it.during the magic phase I put both Flesh to Stone and Shield of Thorns on my Flagellants hoping to inflict maximum damage, the Shield gets dispelled, but my Flaggies are no toughness 5. 2 Survive the battle and hold up the bell, taking a bunch of Stormvermin with them. my Knights rally my BSB and Knights are also set up to charge the bell as well a my General. On the Skaven turn the Grey Seer gets some kills with magic and ringing the bell Censer Bearers finish off my Free Company.

Turn 5 - Multi Charges on the Bell ensue..I fail one Cav charge with my BSB's unit rolling 1,1,2..but I have enough other stuff its OK, my Priest takes the bell out with his Great Weapon, My General the Grey Seer..my Knights kill the rest of the unit...wiped to a man. overrun into the front of one of the weapon teams. My Cannon back in action blows up the Plague Claw. My Handgunners shoot up the remaining Globadiers forcing a panic..they fail and run off the table. All the Skaven has left are some Censer Bearers who charge and kill my Pistoliers but their own gas kills two them, leaving just one..., the remaining ratling guns kills 3 of my 4 knights.

Turn 6- My lone knight charges the Ratling gun and kills it, my general guns down the last censer bearer with a pistol shot. Skaven are tabled, I was at at about 1250 + points we didnt figure it out exactly but it was clear Empire massacre, Skaven did manage to come back in big way between magic, shooting and the Screaming Bell , I had lost 1100 points. If I hadn't of popped that furnace turn 1, would have been a whole lot tougher of a game!


Knight posing, just cause., have a good weekend!


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