Wednesday, March 28, 2012

Killing me softly


Well the love affair had to end sometime, I saved you all my complaints about the Games Workshop total ripoff masked as  "painting improvements" by redoing there entire paint line. Adding some base or some white to the core color and repackaging and renaming it as a new color. while this is clear money grab aimed that those who dont know any better..did you really have to change all the paint names?  so now if I need some Bubonic Brown , I have to go find *Zamesi Desert* and add something to it, because its not exactly the same because as you added a shade to the full color step??
More colors doesnt make for a better Paint line, especially at almost 4 dollars an ounce. I personally was quite happy with the Foundation/ Core/ and Wash setup they had going..I remember them dialing back the amount of colors they offered not 2 years ago, and agreeing it was a good idea and now?. Regardless I have barely cracked mega paint set from last year that will last me quite sometime with my mix of Reaper and Vallejo paints I use. Just another thing from GW, I dont need to buy. Ok. -I just lied about saving you my complaints about the paints. Sorry.

The new Empire models, what can I say? other than I hate them. The book cover looks an outtake from something you'd see in Malifaux. all he's missing is the clown makeup. I am see a couple of single figures I might like (if they aren't finecast)  but overall GW has taken this ostentatious, over the top, left turn with their art and modeling since 8th edition. Every single model is so overdone with totally unnecessary crap, over-armored or over embellished, with  graffti-like iconography, Its like a bad ren-fair on acid. I assume I am in the minority here because on our local forums, good folks I know are drooling over these, and I just dont get it. We couldn't even get a new Knight kit, we had to get Demi Gryph knights so they could be on 40 mm bases because every single WFB army now absolutely must have monstrous cavalry. I must also mention how much I am not into two headed griffons or Wizards wielding steam punk style laser guns? WTF?.  How I long for the days and look of early dark and spooky style 7th edition.

Warhammer has totally *jumped the shark* kids, and if you aren't realizing that its because you have so much invested in it, you cant accept that it now looks like tasteless, gaudy, uber-expensive crap and plays like it too, because every army is basically now the same.

I am going to rebuild a Human army that can double as historical or fantasy army out the excellent Perry Bros.  War of the Roses Plastics with select metal figures from various manufacturers. I'll hold on to some select GW figures but I am selling off the majority of my Empire army, Yep, you read that right I am selling if off and done. I dont even need to see the new rules. Hoping that next edition would be any better just isn't realistic. There are too many other good games out there. and what better time to sell off your multiple best appearance winning Warhammer army,  than when a new Army book comes out.?

I am still in Games Workshop hobby for the Lord of the Rings, but really wonder how long it can last. The last releases for LotR were overall, decent, but odds are not in my favor that it can continue. The company has made an obvious change in direction of whom there target customer is and its certainly not people like me.  I am hanging by my fingernails because I've met so many good folks in hobby I'd still like to game with, but Games Workshop seriously makes it hard.

Ahh , The Empire, how did I *use to* love thee?, let me count the ways.

Bummer.

17 comments:

JoeGKushner said...

I'm not a huge fan of GW for the 'typical' reasons. Changing armies for example. One of the ones I bought into so that I could double it in my rpgs was Ogre Kingdoms. They changed the whole skin tone thing! Ack! At least they didn't take away the guts eh? But on the paints, I'm more then willing to take a look at what they have. I'm always interested in seeing how companies are doing their paints. I think with the Army Painter, Reaper, and Vallejo each coming out with some different bits here and there, that it has actually forced Games Workshop back to the table.

Sorry some of the new stuff isnt grabbing you, but it's not like all the old stuff is golden either. Those zombies they have are from a few editions back and they are the suxkors. The new skeletons aren't bad but man, the wight lord and krell look fantastic. Wish they'd do a new Nagash!

Scott said...

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt... I got sick and tired of GW constantly redo-ing everything; you just get an army painted up, and they relaunch it with new models and new army list or codex, invariable making what you have just spent your hard earned (time and money) on, defunct.

Like you propose, I did a WOTR army based for WAB so could morph into WFB, using Foundry figs, but that was several years ago, and the price of plastics now make the Perrys a better option as you propose. I never used it again for WFB though, and these days even my WAB-ing has bit the dust, and this army awaits being morphed to Hail Caesar-like status...

Like you I am waiting to see what transpires with LOTR, Hobbit movies pending...

JP Chapleau said...

Yup... I have all this extra crap they keep adding to everything. So I just quit and now support Warmachine.

I play WAB and really enjoy it.

Doug said...

I'm sorry but this post really reeks of confirmation bias. You are disengaged from GW across the board, you've written posts about your dissatisfaction with the direction of the miniature design and rules. I'm not entirely sure they could do anything that would redeem themselves to you at this point.

Is this a serious condemnation of the new paints? Seriously? Did GW come to your house and dump all your paint and break your brushes? A new hobbyist will have a much more elegant base > wash > highlighting direction to teach them to paint as a result of the reorganization. An experienced hobbyist already has a ton of paints, washes, glazes and what have you from a variety of different manufacturers and doesn't need to find inspiration or direction in the GW official lines, but a brand new hobbyist might. The price is ridiculous (as always) but that's preaching to the choir.

The cover art is not in any way emblematic of the "state of the union" when it comes to fluff or anything. I've seen this same complaint parroted elsewhere and it's like, yeah. I get it, you don't like that picture. He's an old drunkard general, they've painted a few captains in this style (the model with the great mace for example has a bottle in his hand). Overall art-wise this book is going to be a major cut/paste job with a few new pieces, because Empire is a really established army with a lot of art already. However if you're going to tell me that somehow you don't see traditional art direction in these miniatures, you're out of your mind. The concept and fluff art is packed to the very gills with over-detailed embellishments, You also need to actually open and read your damn 7th Edition army book you've put on such a pedestal, and look at the scale of the griffon depicted on the Imperial Zoo page, it's huge and completely dwarfs the rider.

I never bought the Deathclaw model, it looks old (and kind of silly) but it's a legacy model and that's fine. The rules will still work fine for it. The new one is dynamic, stylized, and really over the top, par for the course with the recent army releases that have all been adding centerpieces and monsters so far.

As far as the demigriff stuff goes, I think this is as close to an admission that "GW broke cavalry" as we're gonna see this edition. Without some rules revision that gives cavalry more of an advantage in disrupting steadfast blocks, they're just going to give every army some form of monstrous cavalry shock troops that can at least generate the combat resolution if they can't deny steadfast.

I feel the pain of armies that don't have all their core in plastic, or the sculpts are really, really old. Empire at least has almost every single entry in plastic, and has a ton of single-model metal/resin stuff to choose from, so it's the perfect army to get a new centerpiece model.

The single-pose Witch Hunter is pretty cool, too. Will be interesting to see the rules, point costs, etc.

Love reading about the historicals though, keep up the good work

Henry's Tat said...

That is quite the rant, well done. I didnt know they changed the names of the paints, this is the only thing i use form GW so maybe its time to jump ship.

James said...

I think you guys are being a bit harsh. Most of you are probably going to read this, roll your eyes and skip the rest but anyway....

I agree about most of GW stuff with price raising and stuff but you guys act like that's the only paint out there. They did post a chart for reference of the old coors to the new. And from what I've heard there actually really good. Yes, they doubled there paint collection and I'm not saying that they're not trying to make some easy money but the idea isn't that bad. And if you've seen the videos on it, it appears to cover very nicely and smoothly. The work I've seen done with them so far is amazing. I'm just saying that you should at least try them. Hey, they didn't raise the price for once.

And about the color scheme constantly changing, no offense, but you guys sound like a bunch of whiners. Nobody ever said you have to update to the newest scheme or buy the newest units. Read what you just wrote again and you'll see what I mean. I agree with you about their ridiculous prices but you should try them before you speak.

John@Plastic Legions said...

Doug,
I wanted to respond since you took the time and its a good retort.


I'm sorry but this post really reeks of confirmation bias. You are disengaged from GW across the board, you've written posts about your dissatisfaction with the direction of the miniature design and rules. I'm not entirely sure they could do anything that would redeem themselves to you at this point.

You're right, I am afraid. when I post these things its really a personal catharsis of my disappointment. I am only speaking to the like minded.

Is this a serious condemnation of the new paints? Seriously? Did GW come to your house and dump all your paint and break your brushes? A new hobbyist will have a much more elegant base > wash > highlighting direction to teach them to paint as a result of the reorganization. An experienced hobbyist already has a ton of paints, washes, glazes and what have you from a variety of different manufacturers and doesn't need to find inspiration or direction in the GW official lines, but a brand new hobbyist might. The price is ridiculous (as always) but that's preaching to the choir.

I just get sick on the constant invalidation of their past products. I understand what they're trying to do in terms of helping people paint and copying other companies existing schemes. its just name changes where ridiculous and create confusion. The second hightlight as a single paint broken out at almost $4 price here is an insult to anyone with a brain. The concept of rearrange the paint system as teaching method is a good one, as usual with GW, but the execution? horrible.

The cover art is not in any way emblematic of the "state of the union" when it comes to fluff or anything. I've seen this same complaint parroted elsewhere and it's like, yeah. I get it, you don't like that picture.

that's all it is a snide comment on par with the scope of my attitude

*on the art* edited for character length.

I do disagree if you look at the art going back 5 years they've translation from the art to models has changed considerably. I am going to do a piece on the art of warhammer to illustrate this..even whats in the Uniforms: Empire book is different than what I see from the new models 8th ed standpoint..its not so much individual figures but spaming of iconography, adding armor to monsters, everyone's dumb giant warmachine, etc.

John@Plastic Legions said...

(Doug, part 2)

I never bought the Deathclaw model, it looks old (and kind of silly) but it's a legacy model and that's fine. The rules will still work fine for it. The new one is dynamic, stylized, and really over the top, par for the course with the recent army releases that have all been adding centerpieces and monsters so far.

the old Deathclaw model is cool it holds up as good miniature in a vintage sense, I guess thats a taste, viewpoint thing

As far as the demigriff stuff goes, I think this is as close to an admission that "GW broke cavalry" as we're gonna see this edition. Without some rules revision that gives cavalry more of an advantage in disrupting steadfast blocks, they're just going to give every army some form of monstrous cavalry shock troops that can at least generate the combat resolution if they can't deny steadfast.

I never saw Empire Cav as broken, not sure how it evolved over that changes brought on by 8th. They could have just redone the ancient Knight Box, in the style of the Chaos Kights, ostentasious and over the top indetails and all and made alot more people happy.

I feel the pain of armies that don't have all their core in plastic, or the sculpts are really, really old. Empire at least has almost every single entry in plastic, and has a ton of single-model metal/resin stuff to choose from, so it's the perfect army to get a new centerpiece model.

So true, Empire sells so it gets alot of love, not that other armies wouldnt if even got the damn update, Hello Bretonnians!!???. Its not the love its gets from the design studio but the direction.

The single-pose Witch Hunter is pretty cool, too. Will be interesting to see the rules, point costs, etc.

I totally agree, my favorite piece from the new pics. I'll pick it up as a skirmish piece

Love reading about the historicals though, keep up the good work

Thanks Doug. You know as much as the anti-GW rants are cliche at this point. It really does kill me to be this unhappy with the game. I've had alot personally and socially invested in Warhammer. and one my favorite people on this planet is my local one man store operator. Its a total bummer, that the new rules and direction have totally boxed me out, I just dont see it as the same, or get the same vibe from it as I once did. Its just not worth the time and money, if you're not having any fun.
I know I'm not alone in not liking the direction that the company has taken, but when I write these things keep the catharsis bit in mind. thanks for your well thought out comments

Conspyre said...

I never saw Empire Cav as broken, not sure how it evolved over that changes brought on by 8th. They could have just redone the ancient Knight Box, in the style of the Chaos Kights, ostentasious and over the top indetails and all and made alot more people happy.


Not broken as in overpowered, broken as in the rules don't work. Cavalry are next to useless in 8th, even shock cav specialists like Chaos Knights, to say nothing of Empire Knights, who were already a little underjuiced. Steadfast is MUCH too powerful as compared to the threat level of heavy cavalry in previous editions (and compared to most things, really). Monstrous cav at least gets more attacks (more critter attacks, plus Stomp) in an attempt to drop enough enemies to try to deny steadfast if you have a midsized ranked unit supporting, but ultimately, armies like Skaven and the Empire can drop enough ranks in there for cheap enough that it's not worth bothering unless you have a unit as deep, or another way to debuff leadership.

Doug said...

I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my comment John! You are right though, I have the Uniforms & Heraldry book and there has been a shift in the type of stuff depicted, they've streamlined a lot of it even from the armybook.

Did you see the snapshot of the painted Empire state troops example from their new "learn to paint" series? it's something else, turquoise feathers and what-have-you

John M said...

Will be sorry to see you stop playing WHFB as I have always thoroughly enjoyed your writing about it. Even if you dont like the game anymore do you really want to sell your army? All that time invested in what is a beautiful collection - i couldnt part with it.

As for the new paint range the only thing I dont like is the new paint pots whose lids refuse to stay open when your painting, the old design was more user friendly.

James said...

I understand more of where your coming from.

Poosh said...

I think your rage is uncalled for. GW paints are an auxiliary area of GW and you haven't even seen them yet, or tried them. We all know GW overcharges (or perhaps their competitors undercharge), but there is no reason to get upset over GW stepping up to the plate and expanding their range - something they should have done years ago. The range is substantive and geared towards their ranges, and I for one will have to waste less of my time mixing paints, only to run out and mix again only to fail to mix it in the same manner as the first. The more ranges and hues, the better for my personal preference.

And when I was 11 I had the brains to shop around for miniature products. You give the young ones too little credit - and if they're dumb enough to not shop around, that's their fault.

I have a problem with annoyed Monster Cavalry, someone's been watching Harry Potter. But a lot of the "crazy" stuff is THERE in the fluff and art from decades ago. The Empire IS THE EMPIRE of the Old World because of its soliders and the insane inventors that build their war machines (and often die operating them). That's why they're no.1 .... Sigmar's children are CRAAAZY.

And the Griffin is probably a super Griffin from the Imperial Zoo (which they shamefully dropped). It probably has tougher rules than the standard Griffin.

Also PLEASE DON'T sell your Empire army. It's superb and the reason I came to this blog. It blows my mind. You may not want to play Warhammer 8th but ... can't you play other games with that army? It's too beautiful to see you part ways with!

Poosh said...

Oh, the Armies Book cover IS TERRIBLE. 100%. And the Vampire Counts book recently was also pathetic. No idea what they're thinking, it makes no sense. Someone needs to be fired at GW.

John@Plastic Legions said...

Thanks for comments all. disagree or not I appreciate the devils advocate.

also while my initial tone was harsh..I am certainly not "in a rage" over this its just disappointment, I am fine with it. I cannot find anything to justify getting back in.

There also seems to be some misunderstanding of GW's history with their paints. but that's totally other discussion. If you guys are happy with the changes, I am glad for you. I just think it way too much money for single color spread personally, If helps people want to paint than thats great..they could have went about it a more customer friendly way.

There certainly plenty of other games to write about armies to paint so that wont change

As for selling my Empire, nothing has remotely happened yet..I certainly wouldnt give it away cheap like I did my DoC, I've got 3 huge historical armies in works.plus my LotR collection and horde of Historical and Fantasy figures you can only have and display so much. Time will tell but I do appreciate the thoughts.

TrekkerYu said...

Interesting points John. While the WHF community has had its share of the disenchanted, for me WHF has never been stronger. My local community went from just Steve L. and I to about 10 players (sans Steve sadly), multiple podcasts on the topic and indy GTs springing up all over the place, like Blood in the Sun. BiTS has expanded to 80 players - up from 60 its first year.

Part of me wishes all the cool ppl I've met over the years stayed in the same circle due to the game, but I suppose different tastes and turnover is the nature of the gaming community. Too bad, b/c the community is honestly the best part of WHF, transcending any negatives of the rules, models and even GW as a whole.

~Yu

John@Plastic Legions said...

Chris, that's exactly what I miss most, however to put the time and investment in to want to play, one needs to like the models and/or the rules, Neither are currently working for me, although its clear the community here is quite strong so its my loss. I'll come find you at Adepticon and say hi!

 

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