Tuesday, October 28, 2008

More on the table debacle.

This is a rant and the first one I've posted I believe so if you dont want listen to me bitch, stop reading now. Like most of you guys I visit various other forums for both WFB and 40K and things I am reading from both 40K and Fantasy players about the new "Realms of Battle" table from GW are really crossing the line. Now I learned a long time ago arguing with anonymous people on the internet is total waste of time, so I don't bother to respond to anyone I don't personally know or have the opportunity to get to know. You have much better chance of getting your point across or reaching a compromise in person, so there is no point getting all worked up over the idiocy of some nameless person from across the void. I've met numerous people over the years who where complete assholes over the internet and who turned out to be A-OK in real life. My point here is I am not condemning the folks I am going to point out in moment to be assholes. It just what they are saying makes them sound like an "Asshole". there is a big difference.

There seems to be two schools of thought about the GW table that are really getting under my skin and both are complete bullshit. Number one is the table "sucks" (ok, your opinion) and that you can build something similar for as little as $40.00. Number two is far worse and I am paraphasing here but the gist of the point is that "if" you buy this table its because you are a "lazy hobbyist" and are not somehow participating in the hobby by buying this product over building your own. The second and much more offensive of these "ideas" being put out there is what prompted today's editorial over at Bell of Lost Souls.

First of all I don't care where you live or how cheap building materials are you can't build a 6" X 4" modular table that is crosswise re-configureable for $40...a sheet of 3/4 plywood is twenty something dollars and 1/2" and 3/4" foam is about $10 a sheet and you'd need several. That is forty bucks for the base materials right there. Sure you can use OSB or some other bullshit but it wont be as sturdy and its not the same. Not mention you need to own tools to do it at a minimum a good circular saw and some clamps and your hobby tools. All the stuff that costs money that you don't need to buy the table. Not to mention the paint, glue and flock and all the little extras that make it nice and most of all time. You know how long its going to take me to finish the new GW table start to finish? 6 hours. 1 hour each section. You know how I know that? because I've built several of the GW modular hills and its that same thing..maybe I put an extra hour in at the end for fine detailing. IF I get it on a saturday..I'll be using it on a sunday. Ok now I am one the fortunate people that has the tools and skills and the space to build my own and I know how long that would take me as well. 2 hours to go buy the stuff, 2 hours to cut it up and glue up the basics, couple more hours to sculpt the foam hills, then onto painting, flock and finishing...I guarantee it would take me month of sundays to get the thing done and I work pretty fast when it comes to terrain. So lets stop the complete bullshit, you can't build anything close to similar for $40 in an afternoon, for the simple reason you need more than $40 in tools to even begin with...IF you think you can even do it for $40 of materials, please do- send me some pics with evidence of the time it took we'll compare it to my finished in afternoon Realms of Battle table, if yours is better, I will post photos of it here and bow to you as a modeling god. I won't hold my breath waiting.

On to the next stupid thing.."buying this makes you a lazy hobbyist", the simple answer to that
is "go fuck yourself" I've built tons of shit from scratch and three full highly detailed tables..my work speaks for itself am I a "lazy hobbyist" because I want this thing? No, I want because it is cool. Not to mention its modular and portable. The gist of the BoLS editorial shouldn't of been "Please don't judge each others dedication to the hobby", it should have been "go fuck yourself" for suggesting such a stupid thing. Marginalizing all the people who don't have the time, or space or the storage capacity for to build there own was really really below the belt.

The bottom line on the table is this..No one is justifying the price increase, everyone thinks the price sucks. (However I only recently noticed the nifty carrying case coming with it, what's that worth? and that's included in the price.) Begruding the people that want this as merely GW fanbois or lazy hobbyist is pathetic. Either you like it or don't, if you do- buy it- if you don't- dont. end of story.

How much you want to bet the haters will be glad to play on someone elses finished table when presented the chance? To all the guys out crying about it not being finished for that price or you could buy two new armies for that price, blah blah. get with program, if you need pre finished terrain go buy some its way more expensive than you think and personally I'd rather have more terrain than a new army, but thats just me. ok, so ENOUGH ABOUT THE TABLE ALREADY, thank you.
/end rant.

10/29- Thanks for the feedback on this. I received some private emails too and while looking around I came across two threads of people trying to create modular tables, the first one is direct attempt to recreate the GW board at the $40 price Unfortunately this fellow is going about it all the wrong way. Using cheap materials may create an initial nice looking product but this thing will fall apart and be damaged in no time. I know from my own experience foam core surfaces are just not durable with regular play..things like big hills are a disaster after just a few games of use not to mention repairs looks like hell. I saw the GW table close up last night and that thing looks nigh indestructible..the insane amount of cross bracing on the bottoms will likely even prevent the warping I've heard about if you leave GW plastics in the trunk of you car during the summer (nods to Bill). I also found a guy making a modular table the right way and its obviously much more time and cost intensive Again costs of tools and time to purchase materials aren't figured in either...but here you go FYI

The Wrong Way

The Right Way


Anonymous said...

bsmoove here. Well said.

I don't intend to build my own table (particularly one that meets the dimensions and standards of the one currently on offer from GW), any more than I intend to buy a packet of green stuff and sculpt my own figures from scratch. I quite like what they produce and intend to buy more of it.

I don't consider myself lazy for feeling this way.

Scott said...

No, you go fuck yourself!!

Just kidding. I think I pee'd my pants while reading this. You need to go on more rants, John.

John said...

You = right.

Mike Howell said...

Amen, brother.

Peter M. said...

I loved the GFYS suggested response! Amen. I think the price is a bit high but the quality and engineering of the pieces is excellent.

Glad you ranted - it is your blog and it should be your voice. Rant more.

Anonymous said...

100% agree with you.

Anonymous said...

Nice comment. I'm Quindia, the guy who built the "Right Way" boards. The grass mats I use alone cost $40 each and I can only get two 2x4' boards out of them. MDF boards, lumber for framing, foam boards, grass mats, seven pints of paint (granted these will last for years to come), resin for rivers, and hours of evenings and weekends...

All I can say to GW is "what took you so long?" I own all of their hill sets and a pack of craters (finished off to match my boards).

I can see getting a set of the terrain despite the large collection of homemade boards I have. They would be great for quick skirmish games.


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