Talking- WFB 8th Edition.

Post game yesterday, I printed out the current crop of rumors on Warseer and Steve and I went over them as I let the camera roll. Steve's a top tier local player and Tourney Organizer, who most recently ran the "Size Matters" WFB event at Adepticon this year. Steve's hobby blog is Oden's Tales..where you can check out what he's up to. We've both been following the 8th rumors very closely and we have both been privy to people with an inside track. The reality is we don't know anymore then the next guy posting rumors somewhere on the internet. We are just making logical assumptions based on what we know about GW's motivations and intent with 8th Edition. Of course, we are both students of game who play ALOT of Warhammer and like to make our own conclusions. Below is the gist of our conversation saturday, paraphased where necessary to keep it short.


From Warseer, the most reliable rumours

* Army construction is moving back to percentages.
* Strength in Depth/ Stepping up (models may fight in 2 ranks)-
* Crush attack for larger creatures-
* 40mm models moving to 3 model-wide ranks.
* Multiple objective driven scenarios in the rulebook
* All non-english rulebooks are moving to inches.
* Power dice aren’t generated by the number of spellcasters. The pool is decided by 2D6. Magic users add their magic level to the score rolled.

All Wizards have a chance to generate more power dice.
* All missile units fire in two ranks (not just High Elves). Missile units will not gain a rank when shooting from hills.
* Autobreaking from fear or terror is gone.
* Combats are strictly decided in initiative order.

John: I going with 100% that this is all solid, the devil is in the details
Steve: I hope overall alot of this is true, I'm pretty confident, in general it is.


Warhammer 8th Ed Rulebook to be released July 10th
500+ pages (probably 528)

John- 500 pages is as big as GW's hard cover hobby and reference guide, that's one unwieldly book
Steve - I'm not so sure about that, it doesnt make sense financially, at $60 for 528 color pages
John- yeah if it was $120 I could see that, but they arent going to put out a $120 core rulebook, it's not in line with past business model.
Steve- Well, we know they'll be multiple versions
John- No doubt.

Possibly going to get the pdf erratas for all armies on July 6th-

Steve- My bet is July 6th errata is going to be movement changes Centimeters to Inch conversions only for the EU
John- there may some generic army errata in the new rulebook but GW isn't one to override army books in the core rules, so it what is in there
as army errata is going to be very generic.
Steve- I expect necessary army book errata will be released separately

Detailed Rumors-

ARMY SELECTION

* Army construction is moving back to percentages.
This is looking more like 25% max characters, 25% min core, 25% max special and 25% max rare (anonymous source, but trustworthy ) The 25%

characters includes mounts.

Edit. Just as I thought this part was looking certain, there have been some rumours/ sources saying 25% max characters, 25% min core, 50% max

special and 15% max rare. I will edit one out as it become clear.

John- well know this happening, just not which is exact detail
Steve- I think its latter..
John- I've read about specific things done on behalf of High Elves, 50% special covers all the bases.

* Categories for core/special/rare are remaining.

John- I think Slots stay as anti spam measure.
Steve- I think Slots are going away, percentages make them uneccessary, its fits with Streamlining the game.

* There *may* be something to prevent spamming

Steve- I fear, and I hope it is not true, That they are going to use kill points, to control unit spam.
John- Kill points are definitely currently sitting in the "discredit rumor" pile
Steve- I hope so.
John- That why I think slots stay
Steve- Maybe, I am not so sure.


* There will be a system wide errata to clear up issues for each army.

John- Inevitably, they have to do it...you know all kinds of shit is going to come up.
Steve- Oh it will get done, just don't expect to be timely.
John- LOL!



MAGIC

* Power dice aren’t generated by the number of spellcasters. The pool is decided by 2D6. Magic users add their magic level to the score rolled.

All Wizards have a chance to generate more power dice. - Avian
(edit: This could be 1 PD for lvl 1/2 and 2 PD for lvl 3/4).
Example: 2D6 roll gives you 3 and 6. You have 1 level 2 and 1 level 4. Power dice =9+1+2 = 12

Steve- I've heard/ differently Roll 2d6 and then add a D6 for each wizard as extra PD
John- That's sounds like a ton of power dice, potentially, what about adding your level to die generation roll
Steve- If you look at the Beastmen book, Casting values are way higher than any other book, this is good indicator of where this is going if you adding your level to casting roll, your level two now basically casts the cheap spell at a "7" instead of a "5"..I'm sure you're going to add your level to the casting roll.
John- Damn, that's a good point. some of these caveats are going to apply, and the new magic phase is definitely going to wacky. I've seen no concrete mention of the Magic Phase now being First before the movement phase, this does goes along with supposed supportive nature of the new magic phase and I've heard this before but its not in the current crop of rumors.

* Giving irresistible force a downside
* Double 6 = a miscast
* Making miscasts much more devastating.
* Something rumoured is carrying over power dice, but holding too many could lead to a ‘magic backlash’. Wizard will recieve wounds or hits if he didn't use the excess power-dice (than originally allocated) at end of the turn.
* All the book Lores will have more supportive spells than they have now, and will all be getting a major overhaul. Each lore to get a mega spell.
* Spells can be chosen, not rolled for.

Steve- Not sure about any of that, but the way I think its going to work, there is going to be a downside for holding too many power dice.
John- Makes sense, yeah. not sure about this "Rod of Power" style carry over thou.
Steve - "Spells being chosen, not rolled" is HUGE, I'm not so sure about that.
John- we'll they better come up with better spells if people can choose so there is some variety.
Steve- I think "IF they do it, spell 1-3 will all that will be eligible for level 1's and 2's, The upper spells would only be available to level 3's and 4's..
John- Ok that ties back to 25% character thing too, we are going to see less Characters and alot more support characters. alot of armies will be running one uber character.
Steve- yep.


And the other rumours:

* There's no limit to the number of dice used to cast a spell, by any level of caster.
* If a wizard fails to cast (not counting dispels) twice in a row he miscasts
* Dispel scroll only adding dispel dice (+2 dice to the dispel dice pool once per game). (edit - possibly speculation)
* Dispel attempts to be made by specific wizards (presumable your casting level is beneficial for dispelling spells)
* A higher chance of miscast with multiple casters.
* If a wizard fail to cast a spell he can't cast other spells in the same phase.

John- I've heard all this too, either here or from other places.
Steve- I think some of these are crap, however the 2nd one would limit VC magic spam
so it's possible.
John- probably, I think the Dispel Scroll being additional dice is for sure..makes sense
with the proposed system.

COMBAT

Fighting in 2 ranks

* Units fight in 2 ranks all the time, with their full quota of attacks, and with any special rules they have.
* Spears may be +1 rank as normal.
* Spearelves may fight with an additional rank as normal (citzen levy).
* Cavalry still only fight in 1 rank.
* This is the same regardless of which side they are attacked on.


Stepping up. – Harry/ Avian / other people

* Casualties are strictly removed from the back.

Steve- This in its simplicity is the way its going to work IMO.
John- Less complicated than this 2nd Rank, gets one attack stuff.
Steve- This is streamlined, your going to have alot more wounds coming at you, Static Combat res is going to less of an impact, due to more wounds.
John- With always hitting at initative..I now have no reason (for my Empire) to ever charge Chaos Warriors. Extra hand weapon, frenzy, thats 40 attacks base!
(we then talk about a mythical combat of my block of empire swordsmen with two character charging initative Chaos Warriors)
Steve- Well lets do the math, 40 attacks hitting on 3's, wounding on 2's....you'll take probably 20 wounds, but your getting full armor saves not that Strength 4 has no negative modifier...you will on avg take 10 kills from that assault, you've got characters and you full allotment attacks back and the Warriors only have a 4+ armor save...your character will kill probably 3, you 8 troops should get 2 or 3 as well. it will come down who has the better static res.
John- just like now- yep
Steve- That's why this random move added to charge is a big deal, you'll need to plan and set things up better. It's going to make for a better game
less relying on the math, more on the tactics
John- yep. I do like the fact Chaos Warriors now become the bad mofo's they are supposed to be. I just don't want to face them!. (laughs)


Horde Rule -

* Fight in 3 ranks if 10+ wide (4 with spears). - Avian.
OR Some benefit to fighting in large units, may automatically become stubborn beyond a certain unit size. – Harry - (edit) seemingly confirmed from another source).

Another edit: Seems this Horde rule may work like this:
If the unit is 10+ wide and 5 ranks deep (50+ models) the front 2 ranks may all fight, regardless of whether they are in base contact.
* Now it would explain how people have got up to 5 ranks in combat (2 front, Spears = 3, Citizen levy = 4, Horde = 5). At this stage just another rumour, but a little closer perhaps to the truth.

Steve- I'm not sure about this myself, while there might some kind of horder rule for cheap troops, I am not buying 50 attacks from spears...I think alot of these rumors got started with the video.
John- all the huge blocks 10 wide marching down the field.
Steve- 10 wide is stupid unwieldy
John- especially with up to 10 pieces of terrain on the board as rumor.
Steve- right -I think the video is all about making a nice demonstration and not so much about the new rules.
John- Not sure, alot of people would disagree.
Steve- we'll see.


Rank bonuses

* Unchanged apparently.

John- Well, this goes in line with what you are saying about combat and the horde rule, no +7 combat res for extra files 10 wide.
Steve- I'm telling you combat res is going to be secondary to wounds, you'll have static res and pysch effects supporting wounds.


One Save to ruin them all!

* Models will only ever get one save (be it ward, mundane or magical armour). No word yet on whether regeneration is included. From Alessio himself!

John- This is great IMO, I am sick of the triple save redunancy and unkilleable guys on dragons, this comes from Alessio, its probably good.
Steve- Well- I'm not sure about Alessio, because sometimes these studio guys will say something casually, someone will take it as gospel and then they will go back and playtest it a bit and then change it., but I think its great idea anyway.
John- No more flying around on your dragon taking on the whole army.
Steve- yup and you'll be facing full strike backs always now..with only 1 save...Heros on dragons will be forced into a more supportive roll or going after small units..they wont be breaking big blocks alone. You're going to have to set up you charges alot more carefully now.

40mm models

* 40mm models moving to 3 model-wide ranks. Ogre sized models are officially being put into their own size category (finally).

Crush them!

* Additional stomp/crush attacks for big infantry (ogres, trolls, etc) to represent them trampling lesser races underfoot. Bigger bonus for large creatures like giants. These are not impact hits. (edit: these could be overrun hits)


Steve- This has got to happen given some of the other rules in order to make heavy infantry like this work it over big blocks, the extra damaging attacks make them more threatening first turn, they need to be worth it.

Armour Save Modifiers

* Fewer armour save modifiers

Striking in Initiative order

* Combat will always strictly be resolved in initiative order (confirmed). Chargers do not get a bonus apparently

John- these are for sure...Strength mods start at -1 for Strength 5 and go up..this really changes the game...Great Weapons
are alot better now..although they will always strike last..even with ASF is the rumor.
Steve- That's going to piss off alot of HE players.
John - It's been said HE get alot of exclusions...

Chariots

* S7 autokill is gone. (edit: possibly not speculation)

Steve- probably..give the modifiers S7 is now -3...


MOVEMENT

Standard Movement

* Measure the distance for the furthest moving model, and perform whatever manoeuvres you wish within that lax limitation (i.e. they all move

like fast cav currently do, minus the reform). Command models will have some role to play in giving free manoeuvre as you move (Musician bonus similar to Ancient Battles?).

John- Lax Limitation?
Steve- Like War of the Ring
John- I'll have to check my WAB book for the musicians move bonus..
Steve- you'll probably get to reroll your charge die.

John- I think the biggest changes to the game are the new movement rules
Steve- following suit of the other games you can premeasure everything
John- Thats why this random charge thing is cool

(Steve and I had a discussion about how to make premeasured Artillery work, I think I figured it out, he agrees to a point but its total speculation not backed up by rumor, so I save it for another time)

Charging.

* An added 'bonus' of getting an 'extra' +D6 or +D3 inches of movement to your Movement range (presumably the D6 or D3 decided by the

category of warrior; infantry/cavalry/ogre sized).
Edit; rumoured to be:

Movement equal to or less than 6 (and not flying):
-> Basic M value + D6

Movement equal to or more than 7 (and not flying):
-> Basic M value + 2D6

John- I think we can pretty much count on this.
Steve- yeah, I'm sure too.

Heavy cavalry

* - Heavy cavalry, defined as any cavalry with a 2+ or better save, cannot march. They can double their move when charging as normal, but they

are not allowed to make a March move.
- "Medium and Fast cavalry remain the same".

Steve- I think this is BS, because it includes the standard double march, as normal, when we know your rolling for your charge move. This is an old rumor, that's still around for some reason.


SHOOTING

Armour Save Modifiers

* As it happens to be the same rumour; fewer armour save modifiers.

Fire in 2 ranks as standard.

* Missile units fire in two ranks (not just High Elves). - Harry & someone else. Missile units will not gain a rank when shooting from hills.


PSYCHOLOGY and SPECIAL RULES

Fear and Terror

* This may be

Fear +1 to Combat resolution
Terror +2 to Combat resolution
* Autobreaking from fear or terror is gone.
* Leadership tests against fear is rumoured to be going
* Fear and Terror incorporate immune to panic (with possibly a change to crumbling for undead).

John- not sure about the last two, but pysch adding to CR as modifier is for sure
Steve- psychology's going to mean alot less
John- well it levels the playing field on the "immune to pysch" armies
Steve- panic being covered by Fear and Terror only makes sense
John- Hopefully Panic still exists in some function.
Steve- not so sure.


Killing Blow

* Killing blow only against models in a similar size category or lower (large creature>ogre sized> infantry/cavalry sized)

(edit: apparently this is close, but not quite right)

Steve- this opens up a big can of worms, when it comes to mounts..does you mount count as your size when you have KB, if only the rider has it..this is going to be weird.
John- we need more info on how this works, I agree can of worms without a good tight rule.

Always Strike First

* Models with great weapons will always strike last, regardless of ASF. There is supposedly a change to the ASF rule to compensate HE a bit, not sure what yet.

(covered)


OTHER RULEBOOK CONTENTS

* Multiple objective driven scenarios in the rulebook (no kill points). See GW grand tournament and doubles scenarios.

* 15 or so missions in the new rulebook. 9 or 10 of the missions required Core units to capture objectives. Units must have banners to capture

objectives. Several missions had multiple objectives

* Victory Conditions
Interestingly something I picked up from a post was that ‘victory conditions’ have been referred to in the last 3 books, not victory points.

* A section in the rulebook dealing with specific issues that may arise during battles


Terrain

* Difficult terrain may be merged with very difficult and encompass more things (presumably more than just affecting movement).
* D6+4 cumpulsory terrain.
* Terrain will not affect the movement phase so much but will affect fleeing units, like in the War of the Ring game.
* Bonuses and hazards for terrain (such as rolling the dice to see how many people don’t make it out of the wood...).


John- I'm glad that terrain is become an important part of the game again
Steve- The 7th ed terrain rules as listed are ridiculous...you can pass at one piece.
John- as long the changes suit the movement rules in a fun way, more terrain always rules.
Steve- We've been using Adepticon style terrain placement for so long, people forget how the current terrain rules are
John- Yeah, I am all up for more.

Steve- I'm really looking forward to 8th Edition
John- Me too..although the 25% character things is scaring me with my new Lizardmen, but I'll figure it out...Looks great for the Empire thou.
Steve- looks great for alot of Armies!

Battle Report. - Empire vs Beastmen 2250

Saturday 4/24 @ Plastic Legions HQ

Steve was kind enough to come by today, anxious for another practice game with his new WIP Beastmen Army. He and I have been digging into the 8th Editon rumors pretty heavily of late and we discussed trying to play this game as an actual 8th ed test game with his beast VS my Lizards (borrowing most of my Army from him). Sanity then grabbed hold of us and we figured we did this we end up "just making stuff up" So there wasn't any point. We just decided to make this a 7th Ed, and since Empire are my 7th Ed army, I might as well run them.

A couple of firsts here, first time playing the a Beastmen list, and first time using the Battle Chronicler software. Since Steve was in all plastic mode, photos were going to be very helpful..so I figured I give this software another try. I messed around with it last fall and it just wasnt there yet. Since them the added a bunch of stuff and while it still took me quite awhile to annotate this, once you can load a bunch of armies into and if they can just add just a few more useful markers and the ability for custom graphics, this is going to be great. Still in the late beta stage I am giving Battle Chronicler a big thumbs up.

Steve brought a Core Comp style list, while I ran my Midwest Rampage list, both were close enough in the composition department that were evenly matched.


Empire vs Beastmen 2250

Beastmen

Lord
Beastlord - Wargor- Stone Crusher Mace, Gnarled Hide, Blackend Plate

Hero
Bray Shaman- Dispel Scroll

Core Troops
20 Gors FC X2
10 Ungor Raiders X 2
15 Gors, Mus X 2
Tuskor Chariot X 3
5 Warhounds

Special

3 Minotaurs X 2
6 Centigors
16 Bestigors FC, Warbanner

Rare

Chaos Spawn X 2

2249

The Empire

Lord

General of Empire- Helm of Rat Slayer, Holy Relic, GW, Pistol

Heros

Warrior Priest- Armor of Meteoric Iron, Icon of Magnus, GW
Battle Wizard- Level 2, Seal of Destruction
Battle Wizard- Level 2, Rod of Power

Core Troops

24 Swordsmen, FC, Warbanner
9 Free Company Detachment x 2

10 Free Company, FC
10 Handgunner, Marksman, HLR
10 Crossbowmen
10 Huntsmen
20 Flagellants

Special

Great Cannon
5 Inner Circle Knights , FC, Steel Standard
5 Pistoliers, Mus, Champ w/ Repeater Pistol

Rare

Steam Tank
Helblaster Volley Gun

2249


Deployment- Nothing fancy here, Steve has a ton of small drops, He held three unit in reserve for Ambush-20 Gors, 15 Gors and 10 Ungors. and still I was done deploying before he had to but down his more expensive stuff. Pretty standard deployment for me. because of ambush I set up three units in the backfield to watch my back. we took turns placing terrain and Steve won and took the good side...(man would I have loved the him and the tower in my Dzone) No big deal, I'm used to playing without the benefit of good terrain by now and just rolled with it.



Beastmen Turn 1- Steve won the roll off and elected to go first, he didnt push my left flank as hard as I thought he would but came gunning for me on the right, He rolls two "6"'s for his 1st two Ambushing units putting them exactly where he wants them..I'm not that worried I have a wizard and the HVG there to watch my back.



Empire Turn 1- I dont do much moving seeing what I can thin out first turn plus I have two units crawling up my rear. Things start out like shit as I bid 5 points for the Steam Tank wanting to send it right out into his line so he has to start taking terror test. "of course" I roll a "6" (essentially a misfire) and I take wound and do nothing. Double Ambushers right were he wanted them forced me to bring my Pistoliers over to help out, not close enough to shoot this turn. I bring the free company over from the left to eventually flank the ambushers on that side and move to the Magic Phase.. I hit the Ambushing Gors with a Fiery Blast, and only get 3, and only get a couple of Dogs with the Burning Gaze, Steve magic defense is low, so ideally I should be owning the magic phase with two level 2's, a Priest and the rod of power. "well you know how "should have" goes. On to shooting. I line up the cannon on those Minotaurs on the hill, MISFIRE, malfunction. cannon's not shooting until turn 3. Helblaster Lights up the Gors a close range I roll 18 shoots hitting on 4's, wounding on 3's and I only end up with 3 wounds!!! only kill 6 of 20 Gors, enough for a panic test they pass..my other shooting goes much better, I kill 2 minotaurs on the left side with handgunners and archers, and my Crossbows get the Warhounds down to 1. Steves turn.-



Beastmen Turn 2- Steve's ambushing Gors charge the Helblaster, and the rear of my FlagellantsHis third ambushing unit, also rolls a "6"!!..he gets them right where he wants them as well. The Centigors charge my malfunctioning Cannon, this surprised me because I was sure steve was going to wait a turn and over run it with Skirmishers, next turn..The Centigors overran and forced my Fire Wizard to flee..error on my part, I had room to move his somewhere safer, dumb and it cost me. The lone Warhound, charged my other Wizard..I figure it would but I got lucky and my Wizard killed it unscratched. The Spawn on my left flank charges my Huntsmen in the woods..he only rolls a "7" for move, I figure whatever I'll just run away..well I roll boxcars on the flee roll, and the table inch at that angle is 11 inches away. Things aren't going so good, Steves, taken out both my pieces of Artillery, one wizard is fleeing, my skirmishers are off the board..he only kills a couple flaggies..my only saving grace..its only turn 2!!!




Empire Turn 2- Things go a bit better for the Empire this turn, the Steam Tank and my Knights both Charge the front of Steve's Command Block, I kill the Bray Shaman right there and his Wargor with the Strength 10 vs large target Great Weapon cant get the tank. I break him easy and he runs..he gets away by 1 inch with good flee vs my crap 3d6 chase..this comes back to haunt me late game. Anyway the block breaking causes all kinds of Panic hell. Both chariots flee running thru each other and another fleeing block of Gors (My Swordsmen charged and he fled) I get about 8 kills from the chariots impact hits on his own units. the Ungors on the right also flee. My Free Company flank charges the Gor in the rear of my Flagellants, the break and get run down. Shooting and magic I do 5 wounds on the Minotaurs, on the right side. My Fire Wizard does fail his rally check and runs off the board..but Steves got 5 units fleeing, His General on the run His Wizard's dead and the backfield is under control. I am back in it.




Beastmen Turn 3- Steve charges my left detachment with a big unit of Gors,, the other surviving ambushing unit of Gors charges my Free Company. His Chariot and remaining Minotaur charge my Handgunners, and the Spawn and remaining Minotaur on the right flank charges my Crossbowmen, Steve rallies 4 of his 5 units, one Chariot goes 1 inch from going off the table and gets another chance. big stand and shoots kill the minotaur on the left and makes the one on the right flee. The chariot and the Spawn do find there targets thou. Centigors tied up in woods reposition, and the Ungors shoot away not doing much. My Detachment gets eaten up by the Gors and overruns into my Flagellants flank. (steve is rocking the primal fury rolls, this a very powerful ability for the new beasts, Steve made seeming all of them until near the end of game, it was like the Beastmen had Eternal Hatred, ouch!.) My Free Company loses combat but sticks to fight another round. My Handgunners get blown over by the Chariot that overruns off the table. Back and forth this one is going.



Empire Turn 3- I gamble and bid 5 points for the tank this time I get it and charge the big unit of Gors are my 10 O'Clock. Steve flees and gets away by 1/2 an inch, My remaining Knight Charge the just rallied Bestigors and Steves Wargor, I had forgotten I took there banner and I had been more concious I probably would moved them away for an easier target later..as this charge was a sucide mission..I wanted to nerf this unit as much as I could for late game. I reform my Swordsmen to Flank Charge the other unit of Gors next turn as my Flaggies are doing their job tarpitting them, I have my Pistoliers and my surving detachment set up to keep those Centigors off my Generals rear. I am shooting and casting at the but cant kill a model.While My Wizard came up empty this turn, my Priest gets off the Hammer of Sigmar on my Knights Unit Champion this is big because the Wargor Challenges me, I do three Strength 6 wounds to him, but Steve makes on the Saves and lives..I have this unit and General below half, which is great..The Wargor puts the pain on my unit Champion, another another also dies but One model survives for another round.



Beastmen Turn 4- Centigors charge my Pistoliers, another error..I could have fled with them and counter charged with my detachment next round if just moved my Fast Cav over another couple inches..the way I had it lined up..they would have fled thru my Generals Unit which would have forced me to make a game deciding panic check, not wanting to risk it, I hold I did position my Detachment right so the overrun would catch them not my General. Both units of Ungors start moving catch my Wizard in the Forest, The chariot in the Steves backfield runs off the table. The other chariot moves one and positions, so does the spawn, The Gors fleeing from the Steam Tank, rally. While Gors fighting my Free Company prevail and take them down. Steve's has one Minotaur on the right who rallies and moves off toward the tower to save the points. My Pistoliers do get blown away by the Centigors who overrun into my detachment.
Could not get lucky there and it forces my hand next turn. The right side Spawn and my Crossbows were pushing every round, but this round I get lucky and kill it. Go Crossbows!
.


Empire Turn 4- My General and Swordsmen charge the Flank of the Gors locked in with my last couple of Flaggellants, who did their job smashingly. As much as I want to Charge the tank into that unit of Gors in front of it, I have to turn it around and bring it back to guard the rear of my General from the overrun of my "speedbump" detachment I put in its way. My Wizard throws a big "dazzling brightness" on the Centigors making them WS1, not matter as Steve has a money roll and smokes my Detachment over runing right into the tank..good thing I put it there.
My General on the Flank crushes those Gors and runs them down but doing so moves me into a path of alot of beastmen units converging on me., My last Knight dies at the hands of the Wargor..and they are moving in as well. I need one more unit..anything and I dont have it.
My Crossbows try to shoot that damn last Minotaur but miss.



Beastmen Turn 5- Steves got two Chariots (one on each Flank) and a Small unit of Gors, that can also flank my General, Steve comes up short on the impact hits..but does considerable damage without my Ranks I lose by two, but come up with the "7" to stick, next turn I'll get my Ranks back and it will be a different story. Centigors put two wounds on the Steam tank, no good. My Wizard gets swarmed by Ungors in the woods and is killed



Empire Turn 5- I make another stupid mistake that costs my big time...the Steam Tank has 7 wounds left, I can safely bid 1 steam points and not have to roll, D3 Grinding Attacks..If I kill just one Centigor, I'll outnumber him by a terror causer. Stupidly I got big bid 3 Steam Points and roll another damn "6"...take wound and nothing( in the end this what costs me the game, I think. Like my friend Jeff's says' "Safety Steam for the Win!", On the positive side, my General and his friends crush the one chariot and the Gors on his flank, while my Warrior Priest chases the other chariot off...My Swords are above half and looking good holding the quarter with one turn to go.
Crossbows shoot at something, either the Mino in the tower or the Ungors but dont do anything.



Beastmen Turn 6- Steve's last turn. Steve is a late game master, winning or losing he comes at you guns blazing last turn..case in point He charges his Wargor with one wound left out of the unit into the Steam tank, with Strength 10 weapon he's autowounding me on anything but a "1" Steve dice prevail and he puts 3 wounds on tank, 3 from the Wargor- nothing I can do. Steve remaing spawn charges my last 3 Flagellants on the table, picking up full points for the unit. His ungors move and shoot my crossbows..I surive with 5, enough to contest the quarter. His other units fall back as much as possible into scoring positions.




Empire Turn 6- Last licks for the Empire...all I've got 4 wounds left bidding 1 Steam point...I have 50/50 shot making the roll and getting a chance to kill his General...even if he gets 3 wounds on me, as long as I can save off a lucky Centigor hit..I can grind both units with whatever I come up with on the D3...I roll a "4" and take another wound..Steve happily delivers 3 wounds and pops the tank...I take a last ditch effort to shoot the minotaur in the tower with myrossbows..needing "7"'s one wound gets me almost 100 points I hit with a 6, bypass cover with a 4, then fail to wound by 1, with a 3, Game Over.


Steve was up 300 on the extra's that and the 300 points from Steam Tank bottom of 6, put him up a bit over 600 points on me, earning him a nice solid victory for the Beastmen. Not sure if I got a clear picture of the Beastmen book this game..No nasty monsters, perfect ambushes...no Magic. Steve caught some big early breaks, and I made some blunders that cost me. Steve took advantage and did what he does best- win. I look forward to playing Steve and his Beastmen again and soon, as he's one my favorite opponents for sure.

We spent about 30 mins post game sorting thru the current 8th editon rumors and had a bit of a Q&A session on the rumored rules, and their application given our study of the game. I recorded on the camera to preserve the details of the conversation and I will be writing it up soon, nothing ground breaking if you're following the rumors but when you hash it out like we did over the gaming table, given both our current experiences, I think we had pretty good analysis of what we can expect for 8th edition. look for that soon and please chime on your opinions of the annotations I did with Battle Chronicler. This was a long one, so thanks for reading!

It's official!

(like the new cover!)

Well, no more rumor on 8th edition of WFB, coming this July. I'll save exploring the variety of rumors versus stuff I heard at Adepticon for a later date.


From GW's newsletter in case you dont get it.

The Warhammer world is a place riven by relentless warfare and the corrupting power of dark magic. It’s a place where vile creatures and titanic monsters roam the lands, where vast armies of evil warriors unleash slaughter upon their victims and only the unceasing valour of the forces of Order prevent the whole world slipping away into chaos and death.

Amidst this tapestry of conflict and carnage are races fair and foul, warriors chivalrous and brutal. These are the combatants who fight for dominance of the world. From the blasted north come warmongering tribes of Chaos Warriors, armour-clad barbarians who have thrown their lot in with the Dark Gods of Chaos. In the Badlands gather the greenskinned marauders known as the Orcs and Goblins, vicious, brutal creatures whose insatiable lust for war grows almost as quickly as their vast numbers. Beneath the cities of the civilised realms nestle the repulsive ratmen, subhuman creatures whose machinations spread disease and distrust – these are the Skaven and they wish only to destroy and dominate all others. Even the forests of the Old World are not safe, for the trees themselves are things of malign presence and the Beastmen dwell within, the children of Chaos – braying beasts who crave slaughter and the chance to enact their savagery on the civilised races.

The Warhammer world is a place where you must bury your dead deeply, for Necromancers and Vampires raise the legions of undeath in their war against the living. Far away in the south the legendary kings of a long-dead kingdom now awaken, leaving their vast tomb cities to wage war upon all under the sun, their skeletal legions a chilling parody of their once glittering majesty.

All these examples of horror are enough to cause weaker hearts to quail, but there are those who resist the darkness, kingdoms and realms that fight for survival. The Empire, greatest of all the nations of Men musters regiments of brave soldiers. Armed with faith in Sigmar, their warrior god, and with tempered steel and black powder weapons they defend their lands. South and east of the Empire lies Bretonnia, a land of chivalry and noble tradition. There, bold knights harken the call of their mighty king and ride out to crusade against the monsters of the Old World. Dwarfs, in their mountain strongholds, are as unyielding as the stone around them as they battle above and below the ground. Loyal allies, but terrible enemies, the Dwarfs are brave-hearted and steadfast as they protect their once-great realm.

In far-off lands the Elves fight out their bitter blood feud against one another – a mighty civilisation that spanned the continents but is now riven with strife and betrayal. Perhaps the greatest warriors in all the world, their numbers are now few and too many of those that remain are lost each day in the unending war between Ulthuan and Naggaroth.

This is a world where victory and death rest upon a knife-edge and the fate of the world, be it damnation or salvation, will soon be decided.

Warhammer, the Game of Fantasy Battles will be released in July. The preparation for this date has been a time of great excitement here in the Studio as we have lavished detail, care and attention onto the rulebook and the fantastic Citadel miniatures range that it accompanies.

Now is the time to gather your regiments, paint your armies and prepare for a battle like never before. If you have a Warhammer army, dust it off and finish up those last few models. If you’ve always been tempted to collect a force there really has never been a better time to start! Warhammer is coming and it’s going to be great.

Lost in the Jungle- Hobby Update

Lack of updates aside, I have been busy with all things Warhammer. One of the numerous great things about Adepticon is that it certainly pulls no punches when it comes to kicking your ass, in the motivation department. I've been hard at work on my new Lizardmen army that I hope to be ready for event's this fall, Specifically our own Core Competency 2010 and the Twin Cities, Northstar.

Starting a new army from scratch is a daunting project, I didnt feel the same way when started my DoC as they were never more than a screw around project when I didnt feel like playing Empire. With my Lizardmen I'm building about 2500 points of models right off the bat to cover me thru I want to run at Adepticon next year. I'm pretty psyched as they were my first choice when I started playing Warhammer, but the new Empire book and releases at the time, pulled me in and the rest was History. Onward with my Lizardmen thou. No Slann for me, for the first 6 months of play. I'll add him in later on. The core of the army starts with 45 Saurus Warriors and 3 Stegadons..the rest you can probably fill in. It depends on the event and the composition rules of whats gets in where, but I plan having at least 3, good, flexible lists with my initial build.

In new approach I am trying to build a unit (or two) and totally paint them to completion. Which means I wont even be playing a test game with this Army until probably September, but that's ok..I've played so many games against Lizardmen, I know them better than any Army in the game with the exception of Empire. Will see how bad the itch gets if I can keep them off the table until its fully complete. As it stands I'm about 50% complete on my 1st unit of 15 Saurus and My Engine of Gods. My Engine (and yes I'm only running 1) is the Army Centerpiece and I have pretty cool, simple conversion I hope people dig. Photos coming soon...I hope to get these first two units done by the end of April or 1st week in May.

In other news, The next big event around these parts is Midwest Rampage. It's Year 5 for the Rampage but the first year I am actually going to attend. I tried last year, but couldn't get my child care duties covered it being so close to Adepticon. This year, myself, Aaron and Chris, and whole bunch of folks for IWFB.org are making the trip downstate for the two day event. It looks to be an awesome event, more on the Rampage at a later date, but I do have one painting project I'll need to do for it and I'll be bringing the Empire, So I don't see my Lizards getting back on the table until almost June. I'll definitely be lost in the jungle for the majority of the summer when it comes to hobbying.

Finally our Club Night picks back up this coming tuesday with almost a month since the Campaign concluded and Adepticon. Not sure what were are going to be up too. (pick up games mostly I think) but I am sure we'll be getting into something organized before too long. Its our 23rd meeting since getting kicked out of our local Games Workshop store when the store hour cut backs happened early last year. In fact the one year Anniversary of Club Night in my basement..was 4/14/09, a year ago yesterday..cool.

GW New Releases!, WotR, LotR

Ruins of Osgiliath, New Plastic Terrain Kit

Damn! this just showed up in my mailbox, considering my never ending Osgiliath Project this will definitely flesh it out in its entirety, getting to mesh with what I have already done should be slightly challenging but in the long run save me bunch of time on stuff I have to make. Also coming soon, a expansion book for War of the Ring..and bunch of cool figures including to two set of plastic knights..if GW continues its LotR scale creep in its plastic kits you'll be surely seeing these knights showing up in both VC and Elven and Empire Armies..pretty sweet stuff.

Adepticon 2010- Rogue Demon

Sunday- Rogue Demon Painting Competition

As I mention before I had two entries in the Rogue Demon. My “Blessing of Sigmar” which should have been in the single fantasy category and my whole Lord the Rings army that I entered as a “Fangorn” Diorama in the Open Category, while both my entries where solid and I felt had potential given what I have seen in past Rogue Demons. This year was at whole different level. Given Games Workshops lack of putting on their own events the last two years. This event was really just The Midwests Golden Demon for 2010..it was just called something else, we had entrys, by Dave Taylor, Matthieu Fontaine, Bennet Blalock Doane, Dylan Gauker, James and Cathy Wappel, and Jess Hodges. Between everyone I just spoke Of..we are are talking about over 50 Golden Demons between them and most are professional painters doing display work for many companies in the industry or teaching seminars at Adepticon. So I didn’t have a chance in hell of winning period. I also forgot (rushed, and between events) to circle the proper category on my card for my “Blessing of Sigmar” and although its obvious what category it belonged in, I’m not sure it even got judged, which really bummed me out because it was my own fault. In the past I always viewed the Rogue Demon as second tier painting event, but with the popularity of Adepticon, the Rogue Demon this year was every bit a Golden Demon event. I’m no trained professional artist, or savant natural like these people I’m just a guy with years of hobbying under my belt. So in the end I got on the bus for the Rogue Demon too late, I should had my stuff in a couple years ago where I at least had chance, the way it was this year and even last year, I just should have stayed home. I think next year I’m just going to devote my time to doubling up my appearance scores on my own tournament armies as I’m first to admit I just can’t compete with the level of talent so it’s a waste of my time even entering. As its same people rolling it every year, hey kudos to them right?, I just didnt think it was going to be "this" good. The Rogue Demon and my performance Saturday were my only real disappointments with Adepticon 2010 from a personal perspective.

Edit 4/7: (I've had for the first time in four years edit my previous comments here for two reasons. RD organizers have personally answered my questions making my suggestions not applicable. Secondly, certain people are purposely taking my comments out of context in order to personally attack me for other positions I have on the hobby- its not worth leaving it up for further misinterpretation.)

Adepticon 2010 Report- Part 4

Sunday- Warhammer Team Tournament

my Empire and Jeff's Brets,

The WFB TT has been around as long as Adepticon, over the years it’s struggled with its identity of being a fun, casual event or being a standard tournament. As Adepticon has grown in popularity the TT’s organizers have had to combat the growth of entries pushing the hard competitive approach to the fun, relaxed approach I think they originally tried to foster. In 2009 the competitive meta game crashed head on nto the TT with allowance of lord level characters, creating some friction between “old school” and “new school” participants. This year the composition requirements were relatively simple 1000 points per team member, No Lords.

My partner for the event was Jeff Schiltgen, and I want to take a second here to congratulate him. Jeff won the Overall again in the Championships Saturday and at Adepticon he’s won every WFB event he’s played in at least once and is now a the 4 time Championship winner. So congrats buddy!

Jeff was running his Bretonnians and I was running my Empire. we dropped the first match purely through horrid dice and then won the secondly two games with close to max scores. We ended up in 16^th place but the broken out scores haven’t been released, and I am curious how our score broke out I initially thought our list was “too tough” for the TT, and boy was I wrong, even with no Lords. We where right in there, but if we were softer than we were we would have gotten rolled. Unfortunately the bright and early (dice at 8am) start time of this compounded with the entire weekend, I was literally a walking zombie and Jeff the same, I don’t have much in the way pictures From Sunday and I don’t even recall the team names of the players we played, for which I apologize Here's a brief run through of the games.

Game 1 VS Wood Elves and Wood Elves.

Lots of Skirmishers, Archers, Wardancers and Double Treeman. The rules encourage different contingents for the TT, but don’t require it although they most definitely should. Double Treeman against our Leadership 8 army, resulted in Making A LOT of psychology tests that we failed every single one of. Literally our entire army fled the board, except for the two unbreakable units (my Stank, Jeff’s Grail Knights) and one lone Knight I had who survived by himself. We played this game correctly, this list was a very hard match up for this even under average dice conditions. The Stank killed one treeman, although it took two rounds longer than average said it should have, but no amount of tactical maneuvering is going to help you when your whole army flees the game. Our opponents here and in all three games where good guys..but this one was a loss

0-1, (think we got 2 bonus points here)

FUN 3 SPORTS 5 COMP 3

Game 2 Vs Tomb Kings and Skaven

A pair of super nice guys with a relatively soft list compared to what it could have been, No Screaming Skull catapult, No Abombination or other Skaven nasties..Our list was definitely tougher. We stack the heavy stuff on the skaven side any one we broke the threats there…my support actually rolled most of the Tomb Kings force on it own. These guy had some really lousy dice early but made it interesting late game with some luck that made thing challenging for us. In the end we won with max bonus points

1-1

FUN 5 SPORTS 5 COMP 5

Shot from game 2, those Tomb Kings on the hill were taking from all sides

from the Empire

Brian Hodge's High Elves. just because when I think of High Elves I think of Brian's. His partner Alex had some really cool old Ral Partha Treekin proxies that were just bad ass

Game 3 Vs Dark Elves (Tyler) and Skaven

Tylers great converted Abomination, looks nasty? it is...

Again a pair of great opponents, I remember Tyler because I played him before round 1 of the 2009 WFB Championships, in which he and I had a great game. This was definitely “the game” of the event for us These guys had a tough force, Abomination, Hydra, Plague Monks, Censer bearers, Executioners with an Assassin, Storm Banner all the bells and whistles. Definitely a tougher list than ours at face value. This game went back and forth a lot, Jeff had a black cloud over his head and his dice were just totally horrible to the point were I could tell he was getting pissed. On my side I was doing pretty well, I gambled on generating 5 Steam Points made the rolls , got a huge charge from the tank off that obliterated the Plague Monks I then got into the executioners and did serious damage to them before the Assassin and Master can openered the Stank. Jeff lost a ton of guys thru failed 2+ saves on shooting , his Grail Knights had a hell of time dealing with a unit of Dark Riders and his Peg knight found no love until a lone rider managed to hold up a unit of Crossbows long enough for me to plow some Knights in. My cavalry rolled up the left side of the table grabbed table quarters the objectives And beat everything I faced in close combat, Jeff managed to salvage his side of table, and although we killed neither the Hydra or Abomination (which was largely ineffective due to bad positioning,) if it was on the other flank I think we would have serious problems, but they stacked there heavy directly opposite our, thankfully. In the end with table quarters, banners, etc we where up +700 and won handily plus max or close to max bonus…although on kills this game was a draw

2-1 max (or close) Bonus

FUN 5 SPORTS 5 COMP 3

Trick or Treat..the winning appearance army Wood Elves and Night Goblins

So the TT wrapped, a good time was had by all, one I had a blast playing with Jeff, although I have to admit I only really pulled my weight in the final game, The two big gripes I think organizers are going to hear about the event at non allowing duplicate armies on the same team and the terrain. The pre determined terrain setups definitely had a negative impact on some armies, including our game 1. for whatever reason. This much more clear to me in the Team Tournament than the Championships (obviously having to do with the type of lists that were brought) Hopefully that will go into consideration for next year. Whether I’d do it again depends, its not really my element but I’d love the see the original idea of people building themed forces for this get the legs it used to have back. We’ll have see how things develop for next year, of course I’d play with Jeff again in a second, but have to assume his regular partner will make it next year, so we’ll see.

James Hyde and Caius Jamison's Team Armies are always the spirit of the Adepticon Team Tourney always built for the event and always awesome, congrats gentlemen.

Adepticon 2010 Gallery coming soon!